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We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

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Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#991

Post by rightbyte »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #873
rightbyte wrote: post #818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is quite pointless to blame activists for a deep systematic problem with our culture. It is like an excuse.

The activists should be blamed for causing disruption at the local level for a problem that can only be solved at the federal level. There isn’t a thing Seattle can do to fix drug addiction/mental health/housing costs (it will remain a high priced local for the foreseeable future). So why should the people of Seattle fall on their sword because the rest of the country won’t get their act together? In fact, the rest o…

I think you overestimate the power of activists.

What do you propose locally instead of "falling on the sword"? Unless the city council purposely makes the library a drug den there is no easy cheap solution. Especially since the symptoms are an indication of a malfunctional city in the first place in which I wouldn't trust them with some sort of radical endouver.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#992

Post by akimbostrawman »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #290
miki123211 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as long as they know they are talking to a model Any evidence for this? It's obvious that a sufficiently advanced AI could solve loneliness if it was allowed to present as human, you just wouldn't know it isn't one. I'm entirely unconvinced that something which seems human in all respects couldn't replace one, even if your brain knows that it's actually AI.

A sufficiently advanced ai that tricks humans would be a human life itself…

Convincing someone of something doesn't make it true or real.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#993

Post by augment_me »

GreenWatermelon wrote: post #799
augment_me wrote: post #767

I think what is missing on from the conversation is the generational question. In general, once new technologies have been introduced, there has been the older generation who has been sad about it because they have the frame of reference on the previous way of doing things. However the new generation does not know anything else, and are often happy enough since the lower-dimensional new reality is their only reality.…

This argument does not resonate with me. I'm in my mid 20s, far from being a grumpt old man, and I used to frequent Facebook back in the early 2010s (remember all those games?) What became clear is how the landscape is filled to the brim with scammers and grifters. These newer applications of technology are akin to cigarettes, or heroin, or opium. They're designed to inflict misfortune for profit. Years ago my parent…

You are already past your formative years. Imagine if you were 14 today, and you knew nothing else than BetterHelp, or psychologists in your phone. You would not know that there is an alternative, and would never feel the human connection with someone understanding you, you wouldnt have the point of reference, so the shrink in your phone would be enough. I am in my mid-20s as well, the argument is about a world-view that is shifted. Same with dating. In 10 years, it will perhaps be incomprehensible for kids to understand how people were dating before their AI-profiles selected the best match.

Society moves faster with faster technological innovations, you will feel like an old man faster as well.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#994

Post by achenet »

ninetyninenine wrote: post #974
achenet wrote: post #819

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now take a look at academia. Where does all that money come from? Taxes. Where do Taxes come from? Business and profit. Academic progress comes from business. Where does the common education system and legal system system underpins the business world come from? Government. Who puts dollar bills into the hands of people and tells them "come next tax season, we're going to ask you for a bunch of dollars at gunpoint,…

>So if you believe all progress comes from business and profit, you believe all progress comes from the government, because business and profit is a side effect of governement. Your logic is truly out of this world. Just because government is involved with progress DOES not mean it's the origin of all progress. Everything you listed is government aiding and facilitating in progress. Nothing of what you said necessari…

> You remember that the american economy existed BEFORE money was minted by the government right? You read history right? So how the heck does your argument fit in the world of common sense? Like your incredible logic is Government makes money, therefore government is responsible for progress.

er... you mean when it was using money minted by the English/British government?

> You realize that "money" aka gold, aka other forms of currency have existed without governments right?

The use of precious metals as currency happened after the creation of debt-based paper money, and was tightly linked to what you'd at least call proto-governmental bureaucratic institutions - the temples of Sumerian cities would decree that one talent of silver was worth a bushel of barley (so roughly a day's wages), and people would do accounting using the silver talent as a unit of value, but that only worked because there was a large temple, with plentiful talent reserves, to act a a starting point for stuff like "laborer A promises laborer B half a talent tomorrow if laborer B gives laborer A a hand on task X today", or "farmer 1 gives farmer 2 one talent's worth of barley today, with a promise that a year from now, farmer 2 will give the holder of this promissory note two talent's worth of barley or silver".

So... my suggestion that perhaps you may be drawing your conclusions based on imperfect understandings of history may not be completely out there.

> Like clearly either you're an idiot,

yeah you got me, I'm an idiot :D

> you're just treating me like one coming up with completely misguided logic to point out what? To read some book?

I apologize if you feel like I'm condescending. That's not my intention, I'm just pointing out you seem to be repeating a falsehood, albeit one that is very popular in American political discourse, that money/business/commerce can somehow happen without government.

Like this Reagan-era meme is patently false, maybe in the fucking 80s no one had internet to verify that it was false, but in 2025 I think people should realize it was bullshit made up by the neocons to cut social services, and has about as much bearing on the truth as the whole "God made earth exactly as it is 6000 years ago" myth that creationists say is just as true as the geological theories which help us find oil.

Like with all due respect, you're saying "money happens without government", I'm saying "bro, Graeber has a several thousand page book explaining exactly why that's bullshit". I do feel justified.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#995

Post by xtracto »

zwnow wrote: post #808
xtracto wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a 44 yo Xenial, not too old, not young. That is, I'm part of the "walkman generation" . It surprises me how people are less and less open to socialize, to the point that some even see you with disgust if you DARE to interrupt them from.their mobile phone trance. Society nowadays is pretty ugly. Younger generations seem very isolationist to me.

A lot of people are simply insufferable so I dont even try to make new friends. I've got a relatively big circle of old time friends and I'll keep it at that. Im a lot younger than you but I cant deal with TikTok brains same goes for right wing retards or people who believe in religions or other esoteric stuff. It's not easy to meet people with actual intellect

I don't agree with you. I am as leftist as it gets, but I don't let my political beliefs get in the way. I subscribe to r/ccw (gun subreddit) and some conservative subs because I want to understand where the right wing people is coming from.

I think younger generations have lost Nuance, in the University I had several good friends who had very opposite political views from me. Still we could sit down and play a D&D round.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#996

Post by lunar-whitey »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #977
lunar-whitey wrote: post #952

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one here is going to help the parent poster by assuming a superior position and lecturing them. It is totally unproductive. I suspect they have been hearing statements like this their entire life. Everything I am reading here is consistent with the perspective of someone with a difference in ability (probably neurodevelopmental) that has experienced persistent social rejection as a result. People systematically fa…

I like how you made this point by taking a superior position and lecturing us all about it. The person I responded to seems like a lost cause, my response was more intended to sway other young people who might be reading along.

Thanks for admitting you are disingenuously harassing the parent poster for the benefit of whatever in-group you happen to find yourself in. I hope they come to understand what you are doing and do something productive with that knowledge.

Are people like the parent poster not also real humans with real flaws? Do you really understand that yourself?

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#997

Post by kylecazar »

DocTomoe wrote: post #774
kylecazar wrote: post #159

AI is incapable of solving loneliness. It's a biological signal we have (thanks to evolution) to seek social connections with other humans , for things like reproduction and survival. Mentally healthy people will never be less lonely as long as they know they are talking to a model. All it can offer is a distraction and an illusion, because it has no humanity. Note: I don't even think dogs solve loneliness. They can…

> Mentally healthy people will never be less lonely as long as they know they are talking to a model. This isn't an empirical claim; it’s a definitional loop. You've defined "mentally healthy" in a way that makes your conclusion true by default. It's like saying, "Only mentally ill people commit suicide, because a sane person wouldn't do that." You've smuggled your conclusion into your premise. It doesn't prove anyth…

"If someone who passes every clinical benchmark for mental health reports feeling less lonely after talking to a model, your definition simply reclassifies them as "not mentally healthy" to preserve the thesis."

I would more readily accuse them of misusing the word "loneliness" than diagnose them as mentally ill. I would suggest it cured their boredom. If they developed a relationship with a model that they deem on par with that of a human, the mental health floodgates would indeed open, because that is objectively a delusion.

The sentence you picked to zero-in on had context. I first asserted that loneliness is inextricably linked to humanity, and solved by human connection. That's a fine claim to take issue with (people do), but my statement about mentally healthy people flows logically from that premise.

BTW, the mentally healthy qualifier was included to begin with because it's been shown that AI can be particularly dangerous for people with SMI. The vulnerable are more likely to fall for the illusion.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#998

Post by kylecazar »

jmyeet wrote: post #436
kylecazar wrote: post #159

AI is incapable of solving loneliness. It's a biological signal we have (thanks to evolution) to seek social connections with other humans , for things like reproduction and survival. Mentally healthy people will never be less lonely as long as they know they are talking to a model. All it can offer is a distraction and an illusion, because it has no humanity. Note: I don't even think dogs solve loneliness. They can…

This argument presupposes that there is something inherently special about organic human life that can't be replicated with sufficient computing capacity. This is akin to arguing humans have a "soul". We will eventually reach the point of creating artificial sentient life and AGI and it will absolutely be a companion for some if not many.

In that world, I'll revisit my position.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#999

Post by saltwatercowboy »

mulmen wrote: post #919
saltwatercowboy wrote: post #845

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you seem nice enough to me.

Is this sarcasm? Do you actually know the person you are replying to or are you just saying what you think they want or need to hear? How does this differentiate you from an LLM from the perspective of a reader?

I was just trying to be nice as my first comment might have read as rude. I didn't want to contribute to someone feeling lonely. For your last question... you could look at my profile?

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#1000

Post by motbus3 »

skrebbel wrote: post #848
motbus3 wrote: post #837

I have a friend who is treating depression for feeling lonely all the time. We used to call him every week to have a coffee, a beer, a pizza or whatever and he never did because he had no time and he was always busy or tired (as we also were). He kept doom scrolling until the day was over

That's kind of how depression works right? The things that could fix it (socializing, exercise, etc) are also the things that are hardest to do. I'm not sure that I read your tone right, but being disappointed in a depressed friend for not hanging out is like being disappointed in a friend with a broken leg for not joining a soccer match.

Not disappointed with him. Maybe disappointed with the fact it is so easy to runaway to those brainless apps and keep this cycle going
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