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The $25k car is going extinct?

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Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#991

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always get an used car for practically any amount of money. A lot of time an used car is even more reliable than a new shiny car full of useless electronic components. To me buying new cars is just throwing away money, simply because at the moment you brought the car out from the dealer the car just is worth 3/4 of the price you payed it, and when you have to resell it in 10 years it is worth almost nothing.

>You can always get an used car for practically any amount of money. sure, but you'll quickly make up the difference in repair costs when the bucket of bolts you paid ~1k for starts breaking down every 3-4 months. And, of course, you'll have to make arrangements to get to work to pay for those repairs while the car is in the shop. Which may have it's own associated costs if you're using uber or a taxi or whatever. Be…

> you'll quickly make up the difference in repair costs when the bucket of bolts you paid ~1k for starts breaking down every 3-4 months.

A lack of adequate maintenance and a failure to identify lemon patterns when choosing the vehicle is always something that can be trivially avoidable.

I’ve had vehicles for over a decade where the repairs on it amounted to a hundred or so a year, at most. Right now I’m swapping out a CV shaft on a 2001 Mazda 626 that has seen ZERO major work done on it in its entire life.

Do the oil changes at twice the recommended cadence, keep on top of every tiny problem, and any vehicle whose entire model line has never demonstrated systemic issues will continue to be highly reliable and low cost to operate. For example, many years of the Crown Victoria fall into this category. The 1997 and 2007 models, in particular, were absolutely bulletproof if maintained correctly.

Even when purchasing a used vehicle, there are many vloggers out there that can help you avoid lemon lines - entire model years that should be avoided - in favour of vehicles that will stand the test of time. Car Wizard is one of my more favourite ones, despite disagreeing with some of his more blanket opinions (European cars, for example).

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#992
post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because they are not heavily advertised, doesnt mean they don't exist. Dacia Sandero/Duster/Spring exist. (Renault) Citroen C1, Toyota Aygo, Peugeot 108, (VW up!.) Considering Volkswagen Group: With a choice of Skoda Fabia/Seat Ibiza/VW Polo you would go for Skoda or Seat, not the VW brand itself if you dont care about marque but price. But prestige is a huge factor still, so people would still go for an overpri…

> so 20k-equivalent from 2015-2019 is already above 25k just by inflation. Its not inflation alone ... The same brand/car type, tends to have seen a 75% price increase over the mentioned periode. Something that used to cost 20k euro in the 2015 periode, is now around 35k euro. That is not "inflation". An we are talking same trim, same electronics, same gasoline engines. Cars beyond a few items (as long as we do not t…

Cars are a large enough part of the budget that they might just drive a significant part of inflation by themselves.

Are we sure that inflation numbers have not been underreported ?

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#993
post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d actually argue that it’s not the cost of Chinese cars but their actual offerings. Compared to the state of Chinese cars a decade ago their current product products are really interesting and offer features that European, American and other Asian models don’t. There’s a great channel called wheels boy on YouTube that’s worth checking out.

I know very little about cars but it seems to be on parity with the rest of the market. The days of Chinesium are over. Or rather, you’re seeing very similar quality no matter which country the product was ”designed” in, as they like to put it. All of the old quality consumer brands have cheaped out and are same or worse than no-name brands on Amazon. I just bought a Miele vacuum that’s ”designed in Germany”. Very fl…

What about the hardware that has also been manufactured in Europe though ? (Alternatively, South Korea/Japan.)

I have been putting my trust in these. (Also looking for 3+ years of manufacturer warranty, guarantees of 10ish years for replaceable parts, high reparability scores...)

Hopefully, they won't let me down.

(Also, never buying on Amazon. Had to break that rule a few times of course over the past decade, but only for <100€ items.)

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#994
post #789
post #702

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In 2024 Toyota in Thailand introduced a cheap pick-up that is a bit under 15.000 USD when THB is converted to USD. I think it's rather neat - the basic model is /very/ basic, but lots of options to customize. https://www.toyota.co.th/en/model/hilux_champ?tab=commercial...

Lol it is the Hilux. This requires posting related info-graphic. Cheers. https://files.catbox.moe/2d1rwq.webp

It's not dumb if it works :

https://acoup.blog/2025/05/23/collections-the-logistics-of-r...

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#995

Americans like to upgrade their cars, not unlike their cell phones, and they often have a monthly car payment (or two) that never permanently goes away. That makes some sense to me, but if the goal is to always have a nice car, doesn't it makes much more sense to lease? The monthly payments will be a few hundred bucks less and you can upgrade every 2-3 years. And from what I understand, leasing agents like to give in…

Read that lease contract carefully. It's meant for a very narrow segment of drivers.

Yeah, it's for people without crazy commutes. It's not as cryptic as you want to make it seem.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#996

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it savings if you buy an item worth less and you pay less? You're just buying a damaged item at that point ... which is worth less to everyone That isn't getting "deal" unless you plan to never liquidate... cars generally don't get used up like a can of soda, so the dent actually matters when you go to sell it.

> That isn't getting "deal" unless you plan to never liquidate... cars generally don't get used up like a can of soda, so the dent actually matters when you go to sell it. Yes, but it mattered already when you bought it! In other words, the dents were already priced in when you paid for it, so you paid less. They'll like be priced even lower when you sell it after 5 years of usage.

Almost all buyers finance.

You cannot generally get a loan on a car with much hail damage. Buyer pool now significantly smaller = less value, must sell for less to attract one of the few potential buyers.

This means for most people trying to unload their hail damaged car, they get to sell to dealer at auction pricing (aka rock bottom prices, penny on the dollar value), sell it to an auction yourself, or hope someone on CraigsList is desperate for a car enough they don't care it's a golf ball.

It's interesting how something like this might be hard to understand if you haven't been through it. Previously working in the car industry, not understanding this is actually common among car buyers and a source of frustration for people who get stuck in their low-value, hail damaged cars.

Think about something other than a car: If I buy something that is normally worth X, but it is damaged and is now worth 0.3X and there I pay 0.3X I did not save 0.7X off what I got... I got something worth what I paid.

You cannot extract value from a deal where you were paying less because you received less (aka damaged and less valuable property with less market value).

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#997
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why do you need a car in Singapore? I can't take my kid to school or buy groceries without a car here, it is a basic necessity and I hate it. But you have amazing transit and high density.

Tourists get this impression by staying in the city centre. However, if you live in an outer neighborhood, what would be a 15 min car ride can easily become a 40 minute journey on public transport if you have to walk to the train station, take the train, and perhaps take a bus for the last mile. Now imagine you have a kid in tow or an elderly parent. Yes, public transit is not a necessity here like in the States, but…

40 minutes still sounds very very good. Your daily commute time to work would be less than 1.5 hours for example.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#998

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny story about this. There was a woman who backed over her own kid in the driveway. For some reason, she was not imprisoned for vehicular manslaughter. So instead of not being in prison, she spent the next half decade lobbying congress to make backup cameras mandatory. And it happened. So now everyone's car costs $3k more. It would have been cheaper to put her imprison than impose a $3k cost per every car sold in…

> So now everyone's car costs $3k more. $3000 for a backup camera, okay.

The screen and the camera is $3k

There's no reason for the screen other than the camera, therefore the camera is $3k

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#999

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've bought a couple of those and never again. They're usually former rental cars and people best the shit out of them. I've had so many stupid things break

I bought a 1 year old used model and it's worked for me for 10 years now. Ymmv. Maybe worth getting a mechanic to look before buying

Mine were all "Certified Pre-owned" so had dealerships go through them and even had a (small and toothless) warranty attached.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#1000
post #829

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I’m one of those people but geared (ha) towards reliability. I’ll take the ABS and TPMS, but I don’t want “bells and whistles“ of touch screens and air conditioned seats. I’m after safety and reliability more than creature comforts.

It's a two edged sword. I love my camera but I've noticed that I tend to look around less, which is bad because a camera doesn't cover everything. ABS is a no brainer. So is ASR. TPMS is awesome coz face it, I have never and will never regularly check my tire pressure. Remember how they taught you to check the oil regularly? Who ever did that? I want real knobs so I don't have to look away from the road and do climat…

I get what you're saying but that driver behind you did not almost crash into you because you decided to abruptly slow down. He almost crashed into you because he did not maintain a safe following distance, wasn't paying attention, etc.

It's insane how normalized terrible driving is. I don't even mean following the law at this point. It's much more basic than that and applies to every vehicle in every context. You must drive in such a way to be able to stop in time if the vehicle in front of you decides to apply max braking. This is dictated by the laws of the universe we exist in, not by some rule arbitrarily decided by humans.

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