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IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

haaretz.com

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Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#991

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soldiers shooting at civilians is a war crime. It does not matter what the intentions of the soldiers are. It doesn’t even matter if the civilians are also armed up until the point they display violent intent according to a common person standard. Shooting at a crowd is a crime. That said the soldiers pulling the trigger are committing crimes. These are patently illegal actions to a common person standard which elimi…

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding here. War crimes are not judged by what a diligent investigation after the fact might find. It hinges on the information and judgement by those acting in the moment. You are a soldier told these armed people a click out are the insurgent group you are fighting? Of course you can engage them. And there is a similar lenient standard applied to whoever got that information…

That is not correct. If you are a uninformed soldier operating in a designated combat area here are the scenarios:

* Patently illegal conduct, according to common person principle, is always illegal. There are no legal exceptions.

* If you are fired upon you must return fire. Uniformed militaries are obligated to defend themselves. There are no exceptions to this, except the prior point. When these two points are in conflict the prior point always wins.

* Uniformed service members are required, by law, to follow orders given to them except for the prior two points.

That is the law. It does not matter what specific scenario finds tenable or practical, because combat is inherently challenging. In most cases this is highly impractical, which is why urban warfare is so challenging.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#992

[flagged]

US/UK, Iran? Notice how israel (the country currently committing the genocide) is not even mentioned in your reply.

Jumping straight to the G word doesn't make it true.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#993
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. Can we stop the genocide now?

Hamas release all hostages and surrender would probably do it.

I absolutely hope they release them.

But given Israels behaviour on the West Bank and Gaza over the last decades there is no reason to belive that it would make them stop their human rights violations.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#994

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe consider why the people your country has tortured for 70+ years has a dislike of you. October 7th was not the beginning of history.

It wasn't. But, if you look at it, history is on the side of Israel. I don't recall any terrorist attacks done by Israel, but I do recall at least a dozen done by hamas. Also, there were 0 (zero) jews in Gaza for the last 20 years or so. In any case, the question wasn't about history. It was about specific situation that requires specific decisions. Yet you deflected the question entirely. While, at the same time, sh…

Really? You don't recall any terrorist attacks done by Israel preceding Oct 7th? You're either lying or ignorant.

I'll answer your question though. The answer is to go after Hamas directly rather than carpet bombing the entire Gaza strip. That's not their goal though.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#995
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Swedish. Since I was a child, for decades, I was taught and never questioned the idea that Germany had learnt from their history, in the most admirable way. That it was really ingrained into the German culture to never let anything like the holocaust happen again. That the education system there was very good in really making people understand why it happened, what went wrong, and how to make sure there would be…

As a German, I think you should cut your colleague some slack. There's 8 billion people in the world who aren't German. If there's one topic that Germans don't chip in on, it won't move the needle. Whatever we as Germans say on Israel/Palestine will be taken the wrong way by someone. Critical of Israel? Still an antisemite! Supportive of Israel? Pathological guilt! It super sucks, but I too will leave it to others to…

"Not chipping in" is very different from "Award ceremony set to honor novel by Palestinian author at the Frankfurt Book Fair canceled “due to the war in Israel," and unwavering support. "Not chipping in" implies neutrality.

> Whatever we as Germans say on Israel/Palestine will be taken the wrong way by someone. Critical of Israel? Still an antisemite! Supportive of Israel? Pathological guilt!

Do you think this does not apply to others? Especially the antisemite thing is extremely commonplace in the US and UK.

If Germany had learnt, then yes, they would be voicing strong opinions. That's the thing - fine, do whatever you want, but don't claim to have learnt.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#996

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't understand military ops. By announcing like this they can see the Hamas operatives expose themselves as they start moving, preparing like little ants and bomb them - not civilians.

If the whole point is to enable them to bomb Hamas and not bomb civilians, why did they bomb so many civilians? This is prima facie absurd.

They didn't bomb so many civilians. Their collateral damage is actually the least in modern times and modern wars. Its just sad that sometimes the terrorist planning to kill thousands is standing in a group with 10 civvies.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#997
post #614
post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because it happened 1000 years ago and there are people being killed in Gaza at this very moment?

People being killed in Gaza are the colonizers isn't it? In addition to being colonizers they clearly declared the goal of performing ethnic cleansing of Jews, and proved that it isn't just words by perpetrating genocide of Jews on October 7. You nicely sidestepped the case of US where Native people are still fighting for their rights and would be killed the same way if they try to perpetrate against Non-Native Ameri…

Your whole argumentation is flawed with gross intellectual dishonesty. I'm talking Gaza genocide that is happening here and now - but your argumentation is like 'But what about Hannibal's atrocities in 216 B.C.?'. I don't deny other peoples were colonized and decimated in the process (like Native Americans obviously) -- their fate and suffering IS important, however it does not have any bearing on what is happening now in Gaza Strip.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#998
I used to support Israel, but in Gaza, Israel's actions have far exceeded an appropriate response. "The dragon slayer has become the dragon", which is very concerning, and undoubtedly a major stain on Israel.

Btw, I am Chinese and have no vested interests in either Israel or Muslim groups, other than my emotions as a human being.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#999
post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I said ethnic cleansing, not genocide. Although genocide is what has been happening for the past 2 years in Gaza as described by even Holocaust scholars. Your argument is a typical claim of racists and zionist colonialists.

> zionist colonialists

Today we learned that refugees are refugees only if they are not Jews that flee pogroms in Eastern Europe.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#1000
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This point of view whitewashes a lot of the history. Israel has been doing horrible things since its founding to Palestinians, starting with the Nakba in 1948 which was an ethnic cleaning campaign to create an ethno state. Many massacres occurred like in Deir Yassin in 1948 and continued with other massacres like in Kahn Younis in 1956 where they lined up more than 200 men over 15 and executed them against the wall.…

I highly recommend the book by Prof. Rashid Khalidi, The Hundred Years' War on Palestine, from the academic perspective of the situations. His relative was once the mayor of Jerusalem and he's the Editor of the reputable Journal of Palestine Studies based in the US. The book begins with an examination of correspondence from 1889 between his relative Yusuf Diya ad-Din Pasha al-Khalidi, mayor of Jerusalem, and Theodor…

> he correctly labeled the many years siege on Gaza by Israel as the act of war against Palestinian people

How did this amazing scholar labeled the rockets launched from Gaza (and no, the rockets did not start in 2023)?

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