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Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

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Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#991

Post by sieabahlpark »

beyondHelp wrote: post #646
honeybadger1 wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LA is definitely okay with illegal immigrants, but it's akin to a deal with the devil. It's a sacrifice on their part for cheap labor in exchange for the occasional burning down and looting of their favorite locations when the tide turns against their favor as it is right now. There is an entire economic system and mechanism of living wrapped around this blood-contract in states like California. The moment something…

Also, the downvoting provides very deep insight of thinking that has taken over. These people have no critical thinking - not to mention self-criticism, as that has been carefully rooted out - apparently knowledge is not important, but education. The paid actors in streets are not the main problem of USA, but whole generation of imbeciles, that can't take responsibility of their own - not to mention for whole country…

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Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#993

Post by anonymid »

ralfd wrote: post #943
anonymid wrote: post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree - there seems to be talking past each other about some very fundamental things: How extensive is the violence of the protests? I saw some images shared of cars that were burned, maybe some buildings damaged. But also lots of images from other protests from previous years. Are the images of the same 3 cars and storefronts or many? Trump says the riots are out of control, Newsom says the protests are largely pe…

Even with you trying to be factual, how you present this still shows your bias. Plus you rationalize the opposite arguments away (“overestimate”) and boost the ones you agree with. From the first Claude link: > Damage remains far below 2020 George Floyd protest levels Ugh. Is this the bar now? Aside from quantifications, I see the disagreement largely on the qualitative/philosophical/ideological (tribal) side. An inv…

I do have a bias, and I don't think that negates the points. I think that's the benefit of establishing a common factual basis. You can argue with the bias by presenting competing facts, or a different interpretation of the facts, but at least we can agree on what we're starting with.

I think the question is - why is the national guard and the military being sent to CA without the governor's consent?

Part of the justification for this from the administration is that the riots are out of control, are posing an immediate risk of violence and property damage. Based on what I've found of the actual violence and damage being done, this justification does not hold up, as the violence and property damage are lower than previous protests in which there didn't seem to be a need for interference.

The rule of law is a different argument. What is the rule of law that is being undermined? I think here too you can have an argument about the operations that ICE is conducting, are they lawful - given that they are being conducted in sanctuary cities? Who has jurisdiction in this case? Is the administration lawful in sending in the national guard without the consent of the governor? What about the military? Newsom is now suing Trump over deploying the marines and the national guard despite his wishes, so there is a claim that such actions were unlawful.

Based on my brief research into this, ICE was operating in an unconstitutional way and making many procedural violations. City Sancutary status is lawful and has been upheld in the court of law. Newsom's challenge of Trump's deployment of the National Guard also held up in court. [link](https://claude.ai/public/artifacts/99a64b2d-e3b6-4d37-956f-c...)

When you say that "the law is being attacked" in this case, what do you mean?

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#994

Post by Spivak »

rocqua wrote: post #236
plandis wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the military release [1]: > Approximately 700 Marines with 2nd Battalion, 7th Marines, 1st Marine Division will seamlessly integrate with the Title 10 forces under Task Force 51 who are protecting federal personnel and federal property in the greater Los Angeles area. It seems like Trump has not invoked the insurrection act but instead it’s all under a different federal law. Steve Vladeck, a Georgetown l…

What can a soldier do to protect federal property or personel that is not law enforcement? Manual labor to throw up barriers seems to be the only option. Anything else requires violence, which only law enforcement can do legally I thought. Unless perhaps they intend to 'use self defense'. But intent kinda defeats self defense.

Seems like they can do what private security would be allowed to do.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#995

Post by major505 »

theshrike79 wrote: post #922
major505 wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah. A good quote from Adama, but that only applies to the US. In many places around the world the police and military are the same.

Can you list these "many places"? One or two examples?

Brazil, the more extensive police work like patrols and crime prevention is usually done by military police.

Crime investigation is part of civilian police.

But most polpulation have contact only with military police. IS no coincident they look like this in Brazil: https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/10r02yp/black...

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#996

Post by Slava_Propanei »

ryandrake wrote: post #755
snarf21 wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the whole platform is about Othering. The greatest trick the rich ever pulled was convincing the middle class that the poor are the cause of all their problems.

This one isn't even about middle class vs. poor. The immigration crackdowns are very popular across the entire (R) electorate, regardless of their wealth. It's all about picking out-groups, making them into enemies, and inflicting cruelty on them. That's what that side really wants out of their government. They have a long list of perceived enemies who they are expecting to be able to deliver cruelty to once they're…

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Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#997

Post by Slava_Propanei »

jxjnskkzxxhx wrote: post #223

There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state. The other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.

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Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#998

Post by Slava_Propanei »

FireBeyond wrote: post #151
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #50

This is probably an unpopular opinion but I would like politicians on the left to speak up about the rioting and burning of stuff at the current protests and also the Tesla and George Floyd protests. It doesn’t help the cause if we allow some assholes to destroy stuff. Basically they are giving people like Trump an excuse to deploy force and a lot of people will agree. I can’t see what is achieved by burning cars and…

The best quote I heard about the BLM / Floyd protests: "Too many people are saying, "It's terrible that innocent black men died, but this property destruction has to stop!" when they should be saying, "It's terrible that there is property destruction, but the death of innocent black men has to stop!"."

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Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#999

Post by Slava_Propanei »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #203
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #50

This is probably an unpopular opinion but I would like politicians on the left to speak up about the rioting and burning of stuff at the current protests and also the Tesla and George Floyd protests. It doesn’t help the cause if we allow some assholes to destroy stuff. Basically they are giving people like Trump an excuse to deploy force and a lot of people will agree. I can’t see what is achieved by burning cars and…

I think the difficulty of this is how much Trump absolutely wants to escalate things, because it fits right into his narrative. I've seen lots of pictures of protestors waving Mexican flags, and of the burning Waymos, etc. My guess is these are a very small percentage of protestors, but it makes for great TV, and Trump gets to say that he's "protecting America against violent foreign invaders". And I can imagine many…

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Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#1000

Post by pwarner »

anonfordays wrote: post #724
pwarner wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly The aggressive raids aren't in Florida or Texas, or even California farm county, they're targeting urban areas, and getting the intended headlines.

You clearly posted false statements. Are you able to retract or delete your comment?

OK agreed as others have pointed out there if enforcement in other places. I get the sense, but can't quantity the push seems different by state and city. Perhaps the reaction is different as well.
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