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Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

bbc.com

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Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#991

Post by matwood »

overview wrote: post #733

We’re only weeks since Trump taking office. Watching the full video, I think to me it seems there’s a mismatch in the response from HN and the reality of what happened there and is happening with the war. Ultimately, people are dying everyday in this war. I wonder if it’s in the best interest of those still alive to continue fighting and dying, or settling with territory being lost. If there really is no end in sight…

Russia has broken every ceasefire/treaty so far. Lets assume Ukraine is fine conceding everything they have lost to date, who will then enforce the next treaty? Ukraine, I think correctly, knows any treaty without strong enforcement provisions is simply giving Russia time to rearm.

Finally, if making the war stop is a top priority, who is putting the pressure on Russia? Russia can pack up and go home at literally any time and stop the war. Putting the entirety of this situation from starting the war to blocking peace on Zelensky/Ukraine might as well be direct talkings points from Putin himself.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#993

Post by matwood »

snickerbockers wrote: post #790

What is actually the projected end-game of people who support this war? It's been three years and ukraine has struggled to make any significant progress at retaking its territory. It should be clear by now that they can't return to their 2014 or even 2022 borders unless the countries backing them become directly involved in a potentially apocalyptic war against Russia, and I haven't seen anybody who wants that, not e…

I think what you're missing is that a peace treaty isn't possible without enforcement. Russia won't agree to any enforcement provisions and Ukraine won't agree without enforcement provisions.

Letting Russia take Ukraine puts all of Eastern Europe at risk and may get us closer to WW3 than simply continuing to support Ukraine from afar with the added benefit of burning down Russia's ability to wage war.

If this does ultimately lead to a large conflict it is NOT because Ukraine didn't roll over, it's because of Russia's actions over the last decade.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#994

Post by matwood »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #626

De Gaulle said that in the matter country's foreign policy, there is no friend or even allies but only common goals. Pushing back on Putin has never been one of trump goal, he'd rather have the entire Europe Russian than having to deal with that. Instead he is much more focused on fighting China, which is fair. However, Russia has been a long time China allies. They have mutual border, mutual goals (the first one bei…

You're making an assumption that Trump has any clue what he's doing. He barely understands first order effects, much less second or third order.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#995

Post by SergeAx »

GMoromisato wrote: post #270

I would like to know what the alternatives are. None that I can think of are palatable: 1. Support Ukraine enough so that Russia doesn't take too much more territory, but not enough for Russia to feel threatened and escalate the war. This was the Biden plan and it sounds like what Europe wants. I just don't see how this ends the war. Is this just buying time for someone to depose Putin? 2. Support Ukraine enough so i…

Put economic pressure upon Russia so it cannot support its war efforts. Meanwhile, Ukraine should be given anything it needs to defend itself effectively. Do you think it is palatable?

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#996

Post by mbs159 »

GMoromisato wrote: post #270

I would like to know what the alternatives are. None that I can think of are palatable: 1. Support Ukraine enough so that Russia doesn't take too much more territory, but not enough for Russia to feel threatened and escalate the war. This was the Biden plan and it sounds like what Europe wants. I just don't see how this ends the war. Is this just buying time for someone to depose Putin? 2. Support Ukraine enough so i…

How about 3 + a fortified DMZ like in Korea?

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#997

Post by inemesitaffia »

labrador wrote: post #149

I try to look at actions and not words. Trump/Musk have not shut off Starlink yet, but maybe this manufactured confrontation is a prelude to that? It also seems to me that Europe could adequately support Ukraine in defending itself, so maybe it matters less what America thinks and more what Europe thinks.

There's people who want all SpaceX contracts terminated.

Guess what this does?https://www.usaspending.gov/award/CONT_AWD_HC101324F0143_970...

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#998

Post by develop7 »

hayst4ck wrote: post #141

The American government has been compromised by Russia. It no longer represents American interests, but Russian interests. Whether the senior powers in America are compromised, complicit, or opportunist, it doesn't matter. America is being damaged. Russian interests are being prioritized over American interests. Our military is too powerful for direct conflict, so alternative conflict against our political structure…

Sure, but what are you going to do about that? (edit: formatting)

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#1000

Post by kulikalov »

GMoromisato wrote: post #270

I would like to know what the alternatives are. None that I can think of are palatable: 1. Support Ukraine enough so that Russia doesn't take too much more territory, but not enough for Russia to feel threatened and escalate the war. This was the Biden plan and it sounds like what Europe wants. I just don't see how this ends the war. Is this just buying time for someone to depose Putin? 2. Support Ukraine enough so i…

russia hasn't been cutoff economically still. 3 years and the economy is going down but not as fast as it should have. The leaders of the west think they are playing a game here with pros and cons. There are no pros and a huge con with number 3 on it. How the fuck can anyone still trade with russia.

This should have been retaliation of the western world years ago.

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