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"Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

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Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#991

Post by lmm »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #973
lmm wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some amount of stability is desirable, but not an infinite amount. A certain amount of creative destruction is necessary to avoid regulatory/ideological/bureaucratic/oligarchic capture. A completely stable system will fall to the iron law of bureaucracy.

> A certain amount of creative destruction is necessary... This sounds truthy and even casts instability as somehow heroic, but it's an oversimplification and hides similar fallacies. It also implies that instability for the sake of instability is default-positive. The best way to avoid capture is via law / regulation. There should be term limits, campaign finance reform, more regulation against lobbyists and the rev…

> The best way to avoid capture is via law / regulation. There should be term limits, campaign finance reform, more regulation against lobbyists and the revolving door, etc. We can't have Citizens United then wonder how capture happened. And, no amount of instability will address that.

On the contrary. We tried to reform and improve the system through the normal channels for decades. We failed. The system is evidently already captured and something a little more radical is warranted.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#992

Post by kasey_junk »

kasey_junk wrote: post #120
greyface- wrote: post #44

This is obviously alarming, and if used to disregard the Judiciary's interpretation of law, unconstitutional. But I'm puzzled by the exemption of the Federal Reserve and FOMC. He's previously beefed with them, and would presumably find the additional leverage useful. Why explicitly exclude them?

He’s scared of them. If he were to mess with the Fed it would impact Wall Street, particularly by making the market indices go down. For whatever reason he cares about that in ways he doesn’t care about his approval ratings or the historical norms of the office. See how fast he reached a deal on tariffs earlier in the month when the markets reacted to them? Since then they’ve been slowly leading tariffs to get the me…

It begins: https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/musk-looks-at-auditing-t...

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#993

Post by kasey_junk »

tptacek wrote: post #296
greyface- wrote: post #44

This is obviously alarming, and if used to disregard the Judiciary's interpretation of law, unconstitutional. But I'm puzzled by the exemption of the Federal Reserve and FOMC. He's previously beefed with them, and would presumably find the additional leverage useful. Why explicitly exclude them?

The Fed is statutorily independent, and organized in a manner that the current Court has validated (unlike the CFPB). Just like Trump can't assert legislative superiority over Congress, he cannot unilaterally compromise the independence of the Fed. I agree with Kasey, too, but I think the exception here is mostly legalese.

https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/musk-looks-at-auditing-t...

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#994

Post by TrnsltLife »

arunabha wrote: post #503

In general, people are going to interpret this EO with their own lens. Unsurprisingly, reasonable people may disagree on the merits of the EO as a whole. However this part of the EO is pretty concerning > 'The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President’s supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch' and later > 'No employee of the executive bra…

I don't read it like that.

I see it as notice to the members of the executive branch that insubordination will not be tolerated. The Chief Executive and the Attorneys General set the final executive branch decision on all matters, and all other members of the executive branch are expected to toe that line.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#995

Post by Vegenoid »

nailer wrote: post #653
Vegenoid wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the point you are making? It isn't politicians that are getting elected to be White House Liaisons, they will almost certainly be appointed.

The will of the people is better reflected by people appointed by their elected representatives than by bureaucrats. I am very confident that you probably do understand that.

The heads of departments are people appointed by elected representatives.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#996

Post by jaybrendansmith »

dimal wrote: post #322
curt15 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, don't listen to the "we're so f*cked" posts on reddit. Only actions lead to results. If you are a Republican but don't approve of how the GOP majority has basically rolled over and abdicated its duty as a check on the president, remind your congresspeople that they owe loyalty to their constituents, not to other politicians. Taxpayers pay their salaries. The Democratic party is also in desperate need of repair…

I am furious at the Democratic Party for bringing this about. They are the only organization capable of losing to this guy TWICE. With everything at stake, they actually thought it was a good idea to put up an unpopular president who had dementia, and tried to sneak him past the electorate like this is Weekend at Bernie’s 3. Then when that idea collapses, they just give it to the default next person in line. This sho…

I am furious at the gutless Republican Party for making this happen. While different choices should have been made by Democrats, blaming them is not helping the situation. The Republicans did this, their media and propaganda apparatus created this disaster, they own this completely. If we lose our republic permanently, I hold each and every Republican voter personally responsible.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#997

Post by jaybrendansmith »

protocolture wrote: post #716
jaybrendansmith wrote: post #11

As Americans that believe in the Republic, what exactly are we supposed to do about this? Should we continue to implore congress to take action against this lawless behavior?

You should probably stop believing. The fiction of government checks and balances brought you here.

Maybe we should try to stop believing in money next and see where that gets our experiment in civilization. All of this 'believing in ideas' is an experiment that requires years of indoctrination. It is extremely dangerous to play with the jenga game of removing core beliefs.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#998

Post by jaybrendansmith »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #190
CPLX wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual answer here is to exercise actual power. Oligarchs are always greatly outnumbered. The only thing that is genuinely effective is mass movement. A coalition of labor unions could shut down all of Elon and Trumps businesses in hours. Block the entrances to the factories. General strikes, boycotts, that kind of thing. It’s not actually that complicated. Instead the modern Democratic Party is in love with appe…

What the modern Democratic Party knows, but understandably doesn’t go around trumpeting, is that they cannot organize mass collective action because there’s not enough people on their side. You talk about “a coalition of labor unions”, but even union members barely lean Democratic these days. There’s very few groups outside of the Democratic Party infrastructure which are polarized enough to take a side.

Irrespective of sides, I would imagine that most Americans believe they are on the 'side' of democracy and a constitutional republic. When they become aware that this is being taken away, I might suggest that many will change their vote.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#999

Post by invig »

arunabha wrote: post #503

In general, people are going to interpret this EO with their own lens. Unsurprisingly, reasonable people may disagree on the merits of the EO as a whole. However this part of the EO is pretty concerning > 'The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President’s supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch' and later > 'No employee of the executive bra…

Given that in all cases interpretation is required, are you trying to make the claim that the President (who is elected and can be voted out) should not make the interpretation, and that some employee who is not elected and works for them should?

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#1000

Post by skippyboxedhero »

croemer wrote: post #657
skippyboxedhero wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is telling that you have that interpretation of executive power but not the same of regulatory power. As proof, this isn't an American problem, it is nothing to do with the US constitution or "gridlock". In most English-speaking countries you have seen: massive increase in power by unelected officials, the vast majority of these officials have identical political views and operate with a political agenda (to be cl…

> imagine if Hitler fired civil servants He did. It's called "Gleichschaltung", we learned about it in school. https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zgtyvcw/revision/4

You completely failed to understand the context of this point (unsurprisingly).

Every government has fired civil servants. The worst thing that Hitler did was not fire civil servants...he got up to some other stuff later that was worse.

Also, quoting a resource for children does not do you much credit. Quote an actual source if you are going to do it.

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