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Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

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Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#991
post #389

OK I guess I’m going to go against the deluge of comments here; And give an appreciable reason instead of denigrating those who might choose this. The context, though, I am British. I grew up in Britain. I went to British school. I can’t speak universally about my experience, (even within all of Britain), because it’s my experience which is in one small area of the country. However, school, for me, was by far the sin…

I'm both glad and dismayed to hear that I'm not the only one who likens public school to prison. I went to school in California, and I would say my school experience became prison-like between grades 4 and 11. In fairness, I can now look back at my child self and realize that I was delayed in terms of emotional maturity, which contributed to my social problems, but the kind of environment I was in was the wrong one f…

Every public school I've been to has literally been built like a prison. Every student I ever met made the same comparison.

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#992
post #941

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School was and remains a prison, that is why they build the gates so high. Worse, its a prison with cult-like re-education towards elements of Marxism, without calling it that, in many cases. Its a spectrum so not all teachers are like that, but there are enough that it can be seen widely. Most of this comes from teacher's followed recommendations made during conferences held by the National Teachers union, which has…

What you say about the reality and mechanisms of torture may be true. But your insistence on assigning this behavior to some political side is, frankly, frightening. It won't change the amount of political violence that's ahead of us, but I would recommend that you, at a personal level, question those associations. No political side, no country, or race has the monopoly of evil, and if you believe otherwise you have…

> But your insistence on assigning this behavior to some political side is, frankly, frightening.

You mistake this being political, and I did not assign these behaviors. These groups have done these acts. Its replete in the histories.

The acts have been littered throughout the historical record repeatedly and regularly starting with Marx and Engels taking from the Jesuits many of the practices that got the Jesuits expelled, and moving forward in time, the actions done by a majority of these people calling themselves such by various names, reflect what you call 'assigned'. They don't self-police and ignore destructive acts, if anything, these people's own actions assigned these to their movement.

I make a point of saying this too, because they change their group names to suit their groups purposes and to obscure their origins; misleadingly in a deceitful way, regularly. They do not want to be tied down by the same repeated failures that are associated with past groups. When you do the same exact things, and expect different results, this is a definition of insanity.

Marxists to Fabians to Bolsheviks, to Maoist, Communist, to Social Democracy, to Social Justice, to Wokeism, and I'm skipping quite a bit here.

There's been roughly a new name every 5-10 years going back to the 1920s, for the same Marxist-based doctrine that fails core components needed for rational objectivity. Failing such it shows the delusion, and fanaticism of those supporting it.

I would have nothing against these belief systems if they were consistent and rational, and in fact there would be no issues if that was met.

All they would have to do is conform to the basic principles inherent in rationalism, that is objective definition, unique meaning in language (no ambiguity of definition), Descartes Rules of Method, and logic. No improper use of the abuse of the contrast principle (hegel).

In other words, falsehoods get discarded.

They do not do this, and that is the core problem. They seek to unify through deceit and omission, that some of them, themselves, believe quite fallaciously, and by using language with multiple contradictory meanings, so no proper context can be made (newspeak). They use coercive methods to induct, following Cult structure as well. Seeming good at a cursory level, while sewing the seeds for evil through delusion, hallucination, and fallacy. These people also almost never happy.

Many leftist movements over the past hundred or so years seek to blur the line between politics, ideology, and economics, and state. This provides them cover to make unprovable false claims and create a power platform. You have part of the group which decries the abuses, while you have the other part pretending to be another group while inducing the same such abuses. Its about control of the resources, not ownership.

Its also beneficial to them to falsely call it political since politics is protected in open societies as is ideology, but this isn't religion, nor should any so called religion/ideology based in delusion or fallacy be protected or supported.

The important difference between real politics and this is in discerning rationally whether that type of ideology is a death cult, whose actions will result in unchecked destruction.

Mises wrote thoroughly about the 6 or so intractable problems of economics under such systems (by structure) because even back then they changed their names regularly (in the 1930s-1950s).

These movements we are talking about seek to make irrational dogma seeking power and control, they make broad nice sounding claims, while setting the stage for indirect but destructive outcomes. This has been demonstrated multiple times in their own policy and publications.

The Russian famine in 1921 for example, or the famines caused by Mao's Cultural Revolution, Maoist Re-education Camps (for the children), the massacres of Hue, Tienanmen Square, political dissident prisoners in Hong Kong, the ongoing acts of terrorism sponsored by the Stasi/KGB, the list goes on for miles.

They of course falsely claim its to make a better future, to get people to cede power to them, but the dynamics and the reality do not match up, and most don't resolve indirectly reference things that show it to be an unobtainable pipe dream, where the real outcome is destruction.

Eventually reality re-asserts when survival is on the line, and failing survival large numbers perish. Production may be continued through slavery, but overall eventually it shows itself to be a death cult.

If you've read any of the material published by the prominent people in these movements, you would see them talking about this, albeit in doublespeak to make it not sound as bad. They never question the viability of their premises.

Now that is frightening.

When you have a movement who abandons rational principles seeking a false utopia while in action only going for short term personal gain, this is destructive. People eventually die when this is unchecked.

Obviously, evil acts are any act that does not result in long term beneficial growth of self or others, and evil people are willfully blind to the consequence of their evil acts.

I'm well aware that there is no monopoly, I never claimed otherwise, but there are clusters or disease vectors where evil seeks to subvert from within until it can show its true face through action.

A group predominantly containing such is important to call out.

The Nazi's were evil, but they started off as the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

The Fabian's had similar origins, resulting in the economic collapse of the UK. They shared tactics, method, and history.

Bolsheviks had similar origins. Maoists had similar origins.

While they all claim to be new and independent groups, their structures show they've adopted core aspects of false or destructive ideology originally derived from Marxism in whole or part.

Political movements with core practices based in false ideology and method, resolving to destruction, are not valid political movements and do not deserve protection.

If you read nothing else, read this, it speaks unpleasant truth. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3263007/

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#993
post #389

OK I guess I’m going to go against the deluge of comments here; And give an appreciable reason instead of denigrating those who might choose this. The context, though, I am British. I grew up in Britain. I went to British school. I can’t speak universally about my experience, (even within all of Britain), because it’s my experience which is in one small area of the country. However, school, for me, was by far the sin…

I grew up in the US, we're about the same age, and I went to a public school where I had a similar experience. More than anything else, I remember the crushing boredom and the feeling that time had slowed to a crawl. I wasn't beaten or abused, but I felt trapped in amber, and the school really was prison-like, just as you describe it. I've never hated anything so much in my life as I hated school. So I escaped the pr…

I learned basically nothing in my k-12 public school but it was fun times.

Emotionally? It is really hard to top those times in high school.

It was the opposite of a prison for me. Like a garden of adolescent roses that had nothing to do with the real world other than the sweet smell of roses as an adolescent.

It is why I am glad to be child free. Anyone posting here is going to have a child that is better off than almost anyone who has ever lived.

I would suspect the best strategy in 2025 for anyone here is to not crush the creativity of the child. The only thing bad you can really do is to impose yourself too much on the child. The more hands off the better. The lighter the touch the better.

Yours skills are not what your child will need t+50 years.

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#994

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These tech parents are hackers by nature Why? Being in tech doesn't make you a hacker. Most people, even very talented engineers, are still happy to follow boss, do a 9 to 5, and don't really bend or break the rules... they don't go against the elite. They see themselves as the elite.

> Being in tech doesn't make you a hacker. Agreed. "Tech" includes a lot of people who are not hackers. It's worth pointing out though that the "hacker" types who go with the flow are in many cases doing so motivated by pragmatism and cynicism. They don't really believe in management or in the company or the product, but they gotta stick around until their shares vest or whatever. Speaking for a friend.

> They don't really believe in management or in the company or the product, but they gotta stick around until their shares vest or whatever.

This is exactly what I’m referring to when I tell people that the tech industry changed and is no longer fulfilling.

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#995
post #389

OK I guess I’m going to go against the deluge of comments here; And give an appreciable reason instead of denigrating those who might choose this. The context, though, I am British. I grew up in Britain. I went to British school. I can’t speak universally about my experience, (even within all of Britain), because it’s my experience which is in one small area of the country. However, school, for me, was by far the sin…

I hated school. Probably did more harm than good. I remember feeling incredibly bored most of the time.

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#996

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The principal always told me "just walk away" and I said, "You fool, the bullies have legs". The key thing that enables bullying is your being confined in a space with them. Bullying can leave scars that last a lifetime that will affect your employment, your relationships, your children, everything. Not least hearing complete crap from authorities primes you to distrust authorities unconditionally.

> The principal always told me "just walk away" I think the root of this problem is the principal-agent problem. It literally doesn't matter to teachers (a) if you get bulled at school (they are not being bullied themselves) or (b) if you have problems later in life. Maybe a bullied kid will completely lose it as an adult and murder a bunch of people. But does the teacher who completely failed to help them get arrest…

My recollections of being bullied is several decades old by this point, and it's probably something that varies from school to school, but I am convinced that bullies won't stop until they are forced to stop. The means may be verbal or physical, but a bully will keep going until there is actual consequences for their actions.

I am fortunate enough that I was too young to get sentenced when I snapped, and that I somehow managed to not get badly hurt in that fight. On the other hand, sending those twats to the scool nurse's office and just laughing at their bruises the day after... Worth it! I still smile when I see my own nose in the mirror.

Mind you, teachers are often powerless in many such situations. They can and should follow whatever procedures they have, but the main problems are the toothless anti-bullying policies and those are usually set though some vague government policy rather than schools themselves.

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#997

Homeschooling is seeing a surge in popularity, its not just tech people or high status people. IME it's a lack of trust, sending your kids to be raised by strangers. I grew up in a small town and some of my teachers were basically neighbors. For some reason outside my understanding, a lot of small towns have shuttered the school in walking distance and moved to "consolidated" schools which might serve a thousand stud…

The irony of this is that you rely on strangers for critical stuff like ensuring you don't get electrocuted or burned at home or even ensuring that the water that you drink won't make you ill or that your car is a good enough condition to not lead you to a fatal crash. Any of these affects your close relatives. What makes education different?

Not really ironic, though. There are aligned interests and effective incentive structures involved in all of your examples. And your examples pertain to very narrowly-focused, objectively measurable outcomes.

Education is massively different. It's not a simple one-off deliverable, like making sure wires are insulated or water is filtered. It's something that's has different success criteria for each person who consumes it. It overlaps significantly with normative considerations and subjective values. And the current infrastructure that provides it via public institutions is badly distorted by perverse incentives, ulterior motives, and dysfunctional mechanisms of accountability.

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#998

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the Seattle metro, and tomorrow morning is the first day of class for our homeschool co-op, where I'm teaching software engineering to high schoolers.

I'd love to read about your experience doing this!

It's a wonderful experience! I taught my first class in 2012, one for 6-8th grades, and one for 9-12 grades and then off-and-on through the years as needs arose.

It's a lovely time in their lives when computers are still "unknown" and a little magical, and they're learning about Minecraft or Roblox. They love to see how things work, but especially, how to create things.

So much of the grown-up internet is about endless passive consumption, so it's great to plant little seeds about how to use computers creatively and constructively and see where they run with it. Not everything has to be in an app, or behind a login, or from scrolling, or watching. We can just open up Notepad++ and create something. When they understand and master that, we move on to terminal or VS Code, or whatever works best for their trajectory.

We take a journey from electrons to gates to binary to bytes to characters to files to folders to ports to IP addresses to routers to HTTP to servers and back again. It's fun to see them piece together a mental model for how all this previously-invisible stuff actually works. It's very complex when stacked together as a whole, but each individual layer is rather simple and straightforward.

I have the career I do, and life that my family does, because nearly 25 years ago, one of the mom's in this same homeschool co-op taught an HTML/CSS class, and a "build your own computer" class. We scrounged some parts together from a Seattle PC recycler and built our own Linux boxes, then played little games or built websites.

I'm endlessly grateful for the time and experience she invested into me at a very young age.

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#999
I am a father of a young kid and I am deeply interested in homeschooling; however, I am mostly intrigued by a "small group" homeschooling, rather than just having my kid alone, at home, learning things without friends around.

Is there anything being done on this front that you think it's interesting?

Re: Why is homeschooling becoming fashionable?

#1000

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The trigger was Covid, but what really happened was suddenly millions of parents could directly see what their schools and teachers were like because we watched our kids work remotely all day for a year." This kind of myopyic outlook that conflates the then-traditional instruction period to the remote instruction paradigm greatly cheapens every other point of your argument. None of the teaching staff that had to ada…

GP mentioned they were totally incompetent in their subject areas. It doesn't matter what medium they are transferring information through if they have no information to transfer.

Would you care to quote the parts that highlight the incompetence you induced from the comment?

All I see is the parent watching their students teacher conduct class in a paradigm that wasn't trained, for the first time. Nobody liked the isolation period, but to base judgement on the system on those criteria is childishly petty.

Be curious to see where their student stacks up now. I know all ages were hit with learning and social issues due to the isolation period, but the 5/4yo entering the edu now are back on whatever 'normal' is considered.

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