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Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

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Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#991
post #329

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[flagged]

Don’t trust the Je… eh, Russians. I’m not sure whether you are serious with that xenophobic comment.

I didn't say don't trust it, just thought it was an expected Russian take.

I have deep respect for so many Russians I've met and interacted with, though. They're not Putin.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#992

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While a false flag operation cannot be ruled out, I don't think the case is as clear-cut as you suggest. > Nobody had incentive to blow up empty pipes except Russia. I disagree: Russian gas was the one leverage Russia had over Germany. Blowing the pipeline ensured that Germany wouldn't be able to get out of the conflict quietly - "Germany still receiving Russian gas" would not receive as much condemnation as "Germany…

I wish people took this incident to realize that Germany should be investing in energy independence, the way France had.

how so, if Germany did shutdown almost all their nuclear power plants? Experts say that would be impossible to "simply turn it on back", because of lack of professionals capable to work on that and that each minute that we wait, harder will be to bring them back...

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#993

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delivery of Russian gas was stopped by Russia in violation of contract. European gas companies demands $20 billion in compensation. Nobody had incentive to blow up empty pipes except Russia. Of course, Russians used false flag as usual, to blame Ukraine, but Ukraine doesn't hide successful attacks on Russian infrastructure, because Ukraine has legal right to defend itself.

Wait. Wasn't it Ukraine that blew up the pipeline? I'm all for them defending themselves. Are you saying it was actually Russia that did it? They blew up own pipeline?

> Wait. Wasn't it Ukraine that blew up the pipeline?

Yup, they did it. The question that is being investigated is if any other Country helped them or not.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#994

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course, Russians used false flag as usual, to blame Ukraine, but Ukraine doesn't hide successful attacks on Russian infrastructure, because Ukraine has legal right to defend itself. This is completely wrong. It involved German/Russian infrastructure, and if confirmed, it would rank as the worst terrorist act in the history of the FRG (Germany) since the Munich Olympic Games. In fact, it could, should, or would l…

A terrorist act is an act meant to cause terror. High natural gas prices, while they might be very inconvenient, are hardly terror in the same way as things usually described as terrorist acts, which usually involve civilians exploding at random.

that is your definition. BTW The department responsible for this case in Germany, is the anti-terrorism department.

https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/deutschland/nord-stre...

zdf is the german news broadcast.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#995

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He just wants more funds for his department.

Reflexive cynicism about the military isn't as warranted in 2024 as it might have been a decade ago. And it wasn't really warranted a decade ago either, when Russia was blowing up Czech ammunition depots, airliners full of Dutch people, conducting assassinations in the center of Berlin, and sending "little green men" to Ukraine. It could be an accident, sure, but suspicion of sabotage is not paranoia. And also, like,…

And yet reflexive cynicism about politicians is just being a realist :D

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#996
post #723

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Yes, there is fiber infrastructure in the Channel Tunnel [0]. I'm pretty sure that while any one good link is vastly better than zero links, no one link is sufficient to carry all traffic from/to the British Isles? [0] https://www.colt.net/resources/colt-successfully-completes-t...

If you're routing through the Chunnel, I suspect you could fit at least two seperate links.

ok, so a quick check of submarine cable maps shows around two dozen from England across the channel (ignoring those to the Nordics and North America)

Would a pair of cable sets replace all of that? That's a lot of data, routing, and redundancy gone. Sure, if they had to try to make it work, they would.

But you seem to be suggesting that because there's a couple of cables in the tunnel, it's OK if the undersea links all get cut by RU/China? If so, WTAF?; you need to explain that

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#997
post #984

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Biden had a great deal of incentive to destroy that pipeline. But far too many more obvious counterincentives. Unlike the Ukrainians, NATO/US were smart enough to see that blowing up NS2 would be hugely stupid, providing precisely zero strategic advantage while simply provoking Russia to respond assymetrically (in exactly the same way as it is apparently doing right now). In addition to the huge methane release. So i…

Your belief in the infallible nobility of NATO belies a vested interest in ignoring its massive, undeniable war crimes, crimes against humanity and violations of human rights at massive scale, as an organization, this century . >Unlike the Ukrainians, NATO/US were smart enough I do not concur with this glib assessment one bit.

I said absolutely nothing about its "infallible nobility", of course.

Or even implying that sentiment.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#998
post #219

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So according to this principle, Russia can send military aid to the Syrian government to strike the US military bases on its territory and the US should not be able to retaliate?

Or station nukes in Venezuela

That would happen under Trump, and make Trump and Rubio look particularly weak at diplomacy.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#999

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> That did not help, did it? I'm sorry, but this is the type of claim of someone who gets news from the Joe Rogan podcast. Ukraine managed to defend its capital from annexation, liberated thousands of miles of territory, and managed to improve its protection of civilians thanks to air defense systems, has lower casualty rates than Russia, and now is starting to create a buffer zone into Russian territory. How isn't t…

>But Ukraine needs to develop its deterrence. The failure to protect Ukraine without it needing to develop nukes is the end of nuclear non-proliferation. You either have nukes, or Russia will make up some bullshit to invade you.

That's why I think it's imperative to help Ukraine. Because if Ukraine loses in a year you'll have:

- Iran suddenly pops out with nukes;

- Then Saudis will show off their own nuclear deterrence;

- South Korea will need to have nukes against NK and Russia;

- For sure Poland doesn't want to be left hanging out to dry with Trump, so for sure they'll get it;

- Germany might as well do it;

- Vietnam if they can develop it;

- Baltic states might make a coalition to develop nukes;

- Japan?

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#1000
post #941

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it were critical, it would have already happened. But Germany and the EU know deep inside that this isn’t about ideology and conquest and Ukraine is a pretty unique case. On the other hand with Germany and the EU acting so tough, Russia might believe them, so some military investment is probably wise.

There's nothing unique about Ukraine. Russia has already taken action against Georgia, and will continue to destablize the eastern half of Europe. You're either aware of this or you're in denial, which Germany obviously is. (Same people who made themselves dependent on Russian gas right before the Ukraine invasion, despite every warning to the contrary.)

It would help if you got your basic facts straight on Georgia, but to be fair this topic has been thoroughly retconned: the EU fact-finding mission reported that Georgia attacked Abkhazia and South Ossetia. They also found that the action that Russia took against Georgia was basically justified, but heavily disproportionate (they shouldn’t have made deep incursions into Georgia).

Another interesting fact: many countries, including in Eastern Europe were and are dependent on Russian gas. Ever heard of the Yamal pipeline?

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