Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say • Hacker News Board

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#991

Post by exe34 » Sat, Sep 21, 2024, 3:01 PM UTC

ineedasername wrote: post #481

frankie_t wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we know the percentage of the total devices used by Hezbollah that got attacked? I guess even if all of them were destroyed, it hardly does any dismantling. But I would expect this operation to open a window of possibility to do some other actions.

Independent estimates peg Hezbollah membership in Lebanon to a wide range, 20k to 50k. Reporting says the pager shipment was 5000 units and so far ~3000 known targets. Figure some devices broke, hadn't been activated yet, didn't trigger correctly, etc. Figure not every member needed or had a pager, call it 50% to be safe but it might be reasonable to think only the equivalent of a team leader would have one. Either w…

it also puts the fear of god in them. if they can't trust any modern tech not to blow up, their ability to wage a modern war is compromised.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#992

Post by exe34 » Sat, Sep 21, 2024, 3:03 PM UTC

astroid wrote: post #561

mmastrac wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong on all three: 1) The victims of yesterday's attack were overwhelmingly terrorist soldiers and mid-level management which fits the definition of surgical. If the results of this operation are as good as suggested by all the early reports, they just carved a major hole in the upper ranks of the organization (not even including the major damage they've caused over the last six months with surgical strikes on leade…

1) The victims of yesterday's attack were overwhelmingly terrorist soldiers and mid-level management which fits the definition of surgical. If the results of this operation are as good as suggested by all the early reports, they just carved a major hole in the upper ranks of the organization (not even including the major damage they've caused over the last six months with surgical strikes on leaders).* 2) We don't ha…

> starting to open their eyes.

starting? they've been cheering for hamas from day 1, and now I'm sure they'll have some motions to pass about a Hezbollah minion having the rights to keep his balls...

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#993

Post by snapplebobapple » Sat, Sep 21, 2024, 7:04 PM UTC

ithkuil wrote: post #961

Terr_ wrote: post #897

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody that goes through all that effort of making secret customized electronics and then sneaking them into usage by your foes wants the plan to be ruined because one went off in an uncontrolled/unexpected way, blatantly alerting all the other targets to toss their pagers into a shallow hole. Even if the engineering makes it's a choice of "all blow up" or "none blow up", they'll also want to have control when that m…

I agree. I'm often confused about the incoherent picture that paints Israel as having blatant disregard for civilian casualties while at the same time devises complicated and risky strategies to perform targeted strikes.

You don't need to be confused, you can just talk to the person about something else for a bit to determine they aren't an imbecile, then verify their view is actually incoherent by talking to them about it, then write them off as part of the growing group of people that are choosing a fantasy they want to be true rather than the verifiable actual truth in front of them. it's pretty easy to suss out the situation by determining which of the 3 I's you are experiencing (imbecile, irrational, or I duffed it and had my mind changed by talking to them).

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#994

Post by gloosx » Sun, Sep 22, 2024, 6:59 AM UTC

Arch485 wrote: post #192

I'm genuinely curious: how is this not considered terrorism on Israel's part? (or is it considered terrorism?) From a tactical standpoint, this is very similar, and the only big difference I see is that this is technologically more advanced/more complex than just planting a bomb or something. If it's not terrorism, what is the differentiating factor(s)? *side note: I'm quite sure other western countries have used tac…

If you consider it a terrorism, it is it, and it's up to you to decide.

Most modern countries terrorize people by design, because they can use the 51% illusion to justify any of their actions.

They also use the same illusion to teach you what's terrorism and what's patriotism, and they will for sure try to teach you young — if they don't, it will be kinda hard to distinguish later on

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#995

Post by neoromantique » Sun, Sep 22, 2024, 7:30 PM UTC

gorjusborg wrote: post #953

nextweek2 wrote: post #928

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to diminish your point, but to add to the discussion. I would point out that landmines are also indiscriminate and allowed within warfare. If anything mines are slightly more indiscriminate due to you not needing to have accepted a device. Although I think morally people are against the use of mines, we've seen widespread use of them in Ukraine. It would be good to see a global ban on these type of methods.

> landmines are also indiscriminate and allowed within warfare That is an interesting angle. I do see that there is a clear distinction that makes the pager/radio explosives worse ethically. Landmines are generally laid to prevent people from encroaching on a guarded area. Minefields can be labeled, which suggests that the idea of the presence of a mine actually helps them be effective in preventing encroachment. In…

>It's a really evil tactic.

As an attack on a huge terrorist cell this attack is as targeted as one can possibly be at this scale. Normal course of action for pretty much any other country in the world would be carpet bombing the areas with little to no regard of civilian casualties, it is only when Israel does it suddenly UN becomes concerned.

This is not indiscriminate explosion of thousands of random pagers that entered Lebanese circulation, it is explosion that is triggered on specific Hezbollah channel, you can't target any more directly than that.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#996

Post by wordofx » Mon, Sep 23, 2024, 1:59 AM UTC

snypher wrote: post #580

ordinaryradical wrote: post #563

There’s a “live by the sword, die by the sword” reaction that I have to this. I think we expect better of democracies, which is why these kinds of attacks shock us. But it is interesting that we are unsurprised when Lebanon/Hezbollah uses terror tactics but it quickly becomes a news event when Israel responds in kind. Ironic because drone bombings like we did in Afghanistan would probably have a much more terrible co…

My conscience was pricked when they killed probably 40,000 people in Palestine, so this extra 3,000 casualties is just more deaths from a terrorist state.

40,000 terrorists.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#997

Post by davu8 » Mon, Sep 23, 2024, 10:19 AM UTC

cholantesh wrote: post #968

oldandboring wrote: post #959

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hezbollah is a legal and popular party in Lebanon Hezbollah is an Iran-backed militia whose sole purpose is the destruction of Israel. > and is at war with another country No, they're not. They're a militia. Here is a timeline of major Hezbollah terrorist activities. Left out, of course, is the constant barrage of missiles rained down on northern Israel by Hezbollah. I copy-pasta'd this from another source for conv…

>Hezbollah is an Iran-backed militia whose sole purpose is the destruction of Israel. This is the official position of Israel, yes, but the international community, including the US acknowledges that they are a political entity as well. You actually don't need to be on side with their positions to accept this fact.

international community acknowledges that they are a terrorist organization

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#998

Post by davu8 » Mon, Sep 23, 2024, 10:42 AM UTC

datameta wrote: post #26

golergka wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how ultra targeted, small explosive charges quack terrorism? I have been reading comments like this yesterday, and I'm completely bewildered as to how any sane person could come to this conclusion. Did you consider the US operation to take down Bin Laden an act of terrorism too?

Can you imagine being in a supermarket and detonations go off dropping people? At least 8 children have died in the pager attack. The US did not detonate personal devices using a supply-chain infiltration, I am specifically talking about this tactic. If you feel the need to bring another conflict into this, you don't think you have an argument to stand on. Imagine this was Hezbollah detonating hundreds or thousands o…

> At least 8 children have died in the pager attack.

why do children have Hezbollah pagers ?

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#999

Post by me_me_me » Mon, Sep 23, 2024, 1:39 PM UTC

Arch485 wrote: post #192

I'm genuinely curious: how is this not considered terrorism on Israel's part? (or is it considered terrorism?) From a tactical standpoint, this is very similar, and the only big difference I see is that this is technologically more advanced/more complex than just planting a bomb or something. If it's not terrorism, what is the differentiating factor(s)? *side note: I'm quite sure other western countries have used tac…

The real question I never see being asked is how a country lets a terrorist org operate to such a degree in their country befrore you can assume they are letting them operate.

A terrorist org having their own ammo depo is probably a hint.

Lets then transplant the example to other ground lets say Poland lets a terrorist group operate within its borders and that terrorists org regularly sends rockets over to Germany.

What do you think Germany is suppose to do? Ask Poland to deal with an org that they openly support, and openly allow to attack Germany?

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#1000

Post by me_me_me » Mon, Sep 23, 2024, 1:45 PM UTC

CapricornNoble wrote: post #817

ericmcer wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be terrorism if they celebrated the civilian casualties and wished there were more. If they could have executed this without a single civilian injury they definitely would have. I guess intent is what makes it terrorism vs war in my mind.

> If they could have executed this without a single civilian injury they definitely would have. Why do you think that? Look at what the leadership of the Israel government is saying when they aren't placating western audiences / media outlets: Cabinet Member May Golan: "Proud of the ruins of Gaza" ( https://www.palestinechronicle.com/i-am-proud-of-the-ruins-o... ) Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich: Starving 2 million…

Its no surprise you get ever more right leaning politicians into the office.

Israeli voters already tried the left dove approaches, resulting in suicide campaigns lasting over 100 days.

It would be crazy to stick with carrot when you are only getting hit with a stick.

The sad truth is political class of both sides has vested interest in prolonging the conflict.

Especially Palestinians ruled by terrorist org openly proclaiming they are only interested in 'wiping the jews out'.