Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#991

Post by smoldesu » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 8:32 PM UTC

throwaway2990 wrote: post #939

turboturbo wrote: post #807

Gruber has a good take on this: [1] > That Tim Sweeney tweet cited as an example doesn’t seem out of line to me. [...] Apple ought to stick to Epic’s deliberate breaking of the App Store rules with Fortnite back in 2020. It’s not even in dispute that they flagrantly broke the rules then. If Apple wants to make that a “lifetime” ban, they should just say so. > Citing recent tweets, like Sweeney’s, that are simply crit…

Na. Not a good take. Apple already said the reason was because they had revoked epics account for breaking rules and did so after being made aware of the account from Timmy boys tweets. Anything else is just Timmy adding fuel to the fire which reinforces apples decision to not allow epic to have an account. Timmy is desperately trying to become steam.

Must be a rough news cycle for you, this morning.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#992

Post by CatWChainsaw » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 8:50 PM UTC

dilap wrote: post #989

CatWChainsaw wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, little column A, little column B. EU is good about bringing lawsuits, but because of how law works, judgments are delayed, appealed, reduced, etc. Eye-watering fines are watered down and don't end up meaning much. Viewing the Big Tech names as nation-states by virtue of the sheer power they hold cuts through a lot of BS when people wonder why they do any action that might seem mind-boggling. It's because they th…

Turns out it was all column A. https://twitter.com/ThierryBreton/status/1765793776692326891 So, good on the EU. And what the heck are Apple thinking?

Again, IMO: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39645538

"I never give any Big Tech with nation-state influence the benefit of the doubt. This is a legal/PR stress test. They failed this one, but they won't fail others."

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#993

Post by kbf » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 9:29 PM UTC

freedomben wrote: post #921

kbf wrote: post #895

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Today's youth are definitely not the rebellious counter-culture youth from my younger days. They absolutely are, you have just become part of the culture they’re countering. Of course there’s conformity within a group or it wouldn’t really exist, but the main reason young people are so turned off by Android phones is that they are mainly associated with older family members who wanted to save a few bucks and substan…

Thank you, this is very interesting indeed and does make a lot of sense given my anecdotal experience. I suspect a good marketer could do wonders for Android's brand image given the misperception, although I doubt such thing ever happens. I get the impression that Google is only half-heartedly behind Android, controlling the reins tightly to ensure their own interest isn't harmed, but by no means truly fans themselve…

I too hope Android thrives. Even though I enjoy my iPhone for it’s design choices and it works for my use, I do understand the issue of ceding so much control to a single entity. Android’s existence as an “escape hatch” is certainly part of the value proposition of the iPhone to me.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#994

Post by MerManMaid » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 9:34 PM UTC

dantheman wrote: post #867

wkat4242 wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah, its really weird to appeal to the noble intentions of a corporation. They're both just engaged in business. This is what's wrong with the current overly capitalist system. Companies are totally allowed to have no conscience, and externalise whatever they please to consumers and the environment. And you could even argue they are 'forced' to do so by due diligence legislation. If we let this continue there will…

Capitalism is a system of private property and voluntary exchange. There's tons of accountability - people can stop buying and interacting with these companies.

Honest question, can you provide a single example of a company that came to dominate an industry only to then go out of business purely because people chose to stop buying and interacting with them?

I honestly can't think of a single example of a monopoly, cartel, or industry leading company which has ever crumbled due to everyone collectively deciding not to do business with them. (without some sort of government regulation or technological advancement facilitating the change)

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#995

Post by johnnyanmac » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 10:13 PM UTC

m4rtink wrote: post #985

johnnyanmac wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>especially given how most modern consoles are basically PCs. people always obsess over the hardware in these arguments when the value is in the software. You probably can eventually run windows on a PS5, but that's not what people buy a PS5 for. They don't advertise it as being able to install whatever OS you want (they made that mistake on PS3, took it back, and then got fined for taking it back), and the value for…

Still as long as you buy the hardware, you should not be prevented from running whatever you like on it. A case of this is the Nintendo Switch, which does not even have a Web Browser (possibly due to Nintendo being scared to death of JIT exploits breaking their walled garden). Want to look up a game guide from the Internet, on a device perfectly able of doing so ? Fat chance, need another device for that! You mention…

>as long as you buy the hardware, you should not be prevented from running whatever you like on it.

Nothing is stopping you from gutting a switch and putting steam deck components in it to run Windows. You can do all that without bypassing Nintendo OS encryption.

>Want to look up a game guide from the Internet, on a device perfectly able of doing so ? Fat chance, need another device for that!

But that's a software problem, not a hardware one. If you want a browser on the Nintendo OS you either need some exploit on how it renders web pages (legal) or a way to install an app that goes around the Nintendo store (dubious, depending on how you approach it).

>why should the manufacturer of the hardware be in business of deciding what streaming services you can use ?

To be fair, Nintendo does allow streaming services. If your favorite one isn't on Switch, it's a business issue, not a store regulation issue. No different from a game you want not having a switch port.

Netflix wants market capture so it's everywhere. Hulu, not so much. Disney probably would have gotten on it if it didn't launch a few years after the Switch.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#996

Post by CatWChainsaw » Fri, Mar 08, 2024, 10:24 PM UTC

swat535 wrote: post #914

In other news, Apple continues its quest of suicide. I can't decide who do I hate more? Epic, desperately attempting to portray their acts as Holy sacrifices by being martyred in the hands of blood thirsty, evil Apple corporation or perhaps Apple double downing with malicious compliance, scummy tactics and lording their mob-boss like attitude towards EU and its citizens? Meanwhile people here are arguing over which s…

Things will have to get a lot bleaker before they can even stand a chance of getting better.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#997

Post by shippintoboston » Sat, Mar 09, 2024, 4:34 PM UTC

throwaway2990 wrote: post #939

turboturbo wrote: post #807

Gruber has a good take on this: [1] > That Tim Sweeney tweet cited as an example doesn’t seem out of line to me. [...] Apple ought to stick to Epic’s deliberate breaking of the App Store rules with Fortnite back in 2020. It’s not even in dispute that they flagrantly broke the rules then. If Apple wants to make that a “lifetime” ban, they should just say so. > Citing recent tweets, like Sweeney’s, that are simply crit…

Na. Not a good take. Apple already said the reason was because they had revoked epics account for breaking rules and did so after being made aware of the account from Timmy boys tweets. Anything else is just Timmy adding fuel to the fire which reinforces apples decision to not allow epic to have an account. Timmy is desperately trying to become steam.

[dead]

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#998

Post by Dah00n » Sun, Mar 10, 2024, 8:21 AM UTC

yakkityyak wrote: post #430

layer8 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that Epic doesn’t want to be Apple’s customer in the first place. They want to publish iOS apps. The fact that this requires them to be an Apple customer is the core problem. Imagine if everyone wanting to publish a web app would have to be a customer of the respective browser vendors. Everyone complains about Google and Mozilla and Safari and Edge. Luckily, that doesn’t prevent us from having our web ap…

I don’t quite understand why they happily subscribe to this model with Xbox PlayStation and Nintendo, but are adamant about getting their way with Google and Apple.

One difference is that most (all?) consoles are sold at a loss and they survive on profits from games. Apple would do perfectly fine with no income from games while Xbox and PlayStation would be DOA.

Strictly my opinion, but I also believe that where Sony sends engineers to help developers that struggle (case in point, Helldivers 2 mass influx of gamers after it became a social media darling causing the servers to bog down), Apple would be more likely to use their massive data from iPhones to launch a direct competitor to any app that became a big hit rather than help them out (case in point, Spotify Vs. Apple Music and the other apps Apple tried to buy, and when denied, cloned).

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#999

Post by fennecbutt » Mon, Mar 11, 2024, 3:02 AM UTC

simondotau wrote: post #866

fennecbutt wrote: post #830

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple sells iPhones for a profit even before the app store is involved. Consoles rely on game sales.

I'm wondering how you're thinking this distinction should apply in the real world. Would you say that if a game console is ever sold at a profit, the rules should change for that console platform?

I think these rules should apply to consoles too.

I never said how I felt about how the rules should be applied, I was just making a distinction between the two industries.

Stop em all from charging a percentage. All of em. Every industry.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#1000

Post by 0x457 » Mon, Mar 11, 2024, 11:40 PM UTC

jayd16 wrote: post #678

0x457 wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Game developers and console makers tend to have a much cosier relationship because they actually care about each other. lmao, in what world? Apple used to bring Epic games on stage during it presentations. The difference between a gaming console and a phone is that your phone is in your pocket and the console isn't. Both provide libraries and tools for development, both provide support, both provide distribution ch…

Have you actually published a console game? The process is night and day.

Well, duh. How different it is between publishing on PC? IMO, more useful synergy comes from developers have a good relationship with Nvidia/AMD than with publishers.

I'm not arguing about that. I'm saying that "carrying about each other" is a stretch.