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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#991

Post by rowanseymour »

petra wrote: post #876
rowanseymour wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rape and torture were not featured [1] in the recent propaganda movie Israel screened to select people in the West, so there's no reason to believe such footage exists. 1. https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1729487180630786219

I have heard of footage showing rape , but that it was left out, due to respect for the victims. In any case there are other evidence for that to happen.

Given the massive propaganda value of these claims in terms of justifying the current assault on Gaza, it's hard to imagine they wouldn't have found a way to include them. Maybe there's some other evdence but it seems odd that people are asserting that "footage exists" based on nothing.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#992

Post by digging »

proc0 wrote: post #846
digging wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you rather get tortured to death horrifically or have your closest 200 relatives crushed to death in the rubble of everything they own? If we're comparing experiences, this might be a more typical choice.

That's pivoting from the experience of one person to comparing deaths in numbers. If we talk about the ratio we'll then need to include a bunch of other factors to explain it because it's not as simple as comparing experiences at the individual's level.

No, it's not. Having one's family exterminated is also a personal experience. This has happened to actual living Palestinians. Perhaps it's difficult to believe, which is why I thought it was an important experience to include.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#993

Post by digging »

kaba0 wrote: post #976
wazoox wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even when dug out at some point, following a long and painful agony people crushed under collapsed buildings almost always die. Particularly in Gaza where medical supplies are now non-existent. Lots of innocents are dying; there is IMO absolutely no amount of reasoning that can justify it, under any circumstances. It's just wrong. It must stop, period.

> there is IMO absolutely no amount of reasoning that can justify it Unfortunately, I don’t see any other way. But I would be very happy to know of any that will eradicate hamas, and let both sides’ civilians finally live in peace.

That's why Netanyahu has been funding and encouraging Hamas for decades. Now he has a perfect excuse to massacre Palestinians, because he has to bomb Hamas. The alternative, impossible, unthinkable, would be treating Palestinians with dignity and humanity, allowing them to live and flourish in their homeland, and giving them no reason to support Hamas. Netanyahu knows exactly what he's doing and has been doing and what we're seeing right now is his goal. He wants Palestinians gone.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#994

Post by 93po »

lovelyviking wrote: post #970
bjourne wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clips of bodies being buried in mass graves, of corpses with maggot-infested wounds, of limbs scattered in shopping bags, of children screaming in terror as their city blocks gets bombed, or of soldiers stripping civilians naked are not "pro-Palestinian" per se. But they show the terrible brutality of this "war". That may cause people with some empathy and with hearts not cold as stone to demand an end to the terror.…

>That may cause people with some empathy and with hearts not cold as stone to demand an end to the terror. Well this should have caused those people to do something with Hammas controlling the area long before recent events. Isn’t it? This would have be much more Pro-human don’t you think?

Do you blame north koreans for starving because they didn't do something about the kim family?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#995

Post by wazoox »

kaba0 wrote: post #976
wazoox wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even when dug out at some point, following a long and painful agony people crushed under collapsed buildings almost always die. Particularly in Gaza where medical supplies are now non-existent. Lots of innocents are dying; there is IMO absolutely no amount of reasoning that can justify it, under any circumstances. It's just wrong. It must stop, period.

> there is IMO absolutely no amount of reasoning that can justify it Unfortunately, I don’t see any other way. But I would be very happy to know of any that will eradicate hamas, and let both sides’ civilians finally live in peace.

You're taking it backward. You must not kill children. Everything else flows from this point. If your "solution" implies to kill children, it's not a solution, it's not defensible, it's not to be debated. Period. Else you're just as bad (or worse) as the other side. If you're not a fascistic fanatic (like the other side), then don't call for murder and crime (like the other side). Simple, uh?

In war there can be no justice. Now consider what is more just: not killing perpetrators, or killing innocents? Obviously, not killing is preferable. As Socrates said 2400 years ago, it's worse to commit injustice than to suffer it.

If you want an intelligent commentary on the current situation, please listen to Yuval Noah Harari on Sam Harris' podcast about this.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#996

Post by aprilthird2021 »

flyinglizard wrote: post #943
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to feel like you until I befriended a Palestinian in college. He had to take a year off because Israel denied him a permit to leave Gaza to attend college in the US. He had every document and paid tuition, but the Israeli government did not let him leave. Since then I realized I cannot just let what's happening over there stay over there. I would want him to have cared and known and tried to help if I were in…

Egypt, not Israel, is where most Gazans travel through. Sounds like Hamas wouldn’t let him leave and he pinned this on Israel.

There are multiple documented instances of this happening where Israel is the one who denies the visa or fails to provide it.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/11/19/gaza-israel-blocks-670-s...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/palesti...

From a cursory reading[1], it seems Israel had for a long time the ability to veto any human's exit from Gaza through the Rafah crossing in Egypt. Seems to only be the last 5 years where they were not able to do this and that border crossing was open. I graduated from University in 2017.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_Border_Crossing

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#997

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #763
MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #743

Most of the top comments here are against Israel, the country that is defending itself against Hamas-ISIS. I think the bias in this discussion is a direct illustration of Sam Altmans tweet from yesterday: https://twitter.com/sama/status/1732925866836210151 "for a long time i said that antisemitism, particularly on the american left, was not as bad as people claimed. i'd like to just state that i was totally wrong. i…

Why does only Israel have the right to defend itself and not Palestine? When Israeli settlers steal Palestine day by day why does Palestine not have a right to exist and only Israel does? When Israel imprisons Palestinians for years without charging them with crimes and there is documented proof of them raping and torturing them [1] why doesn't Palestine have the right to defeat Israel to make sure that never happens…

this 'resistance' is just killing every civilian right and left, that's just pure evil. Go inform yourself.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#998

Post by grumple »

mhalberstram wrote: post #610
grumple wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I could not confirm your claim that Hamas called for murdering Jews globally. Could you please share a source? My feeling is that media controlled by people - like TikTok - tend to be pro-Palestinian, whereas media controlled by institutions tend to be pro-Israeli (with the exception of the majority of ONGs and human right organizations). > it gets amplified by 1.8 billion people whose holy book calls for attacks on…

> I could not confirm your claim that Hamas called for murdering Jews globally. Could you please share a source?

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalize_the_Intifada

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/former-hamas-chief...

> "To all scholars who teach jihad... to all who teach and learn, this is a moment for the application (of theories)," Meshaal said.

https://www.voanews.com/a/middle-east_hamas-official-condemn...

> He continued: "Seven million Palestinians outside, enough warming up, you have Jews with you in every place. You should attack every Jew possible in all the world and kill them."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azEgBsU6Mi8

I can find more sources but I have work to do.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#1000

Post by gryzzly »

zone411 wrote: post #360
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This also presumes that any Muslim will be pro-Palestine and any Jewish person would be pro-Israel, a pretty strong statement given that entire communities within Israel are staunchly opposed to their ongoing actions against Hamas, which increasingly seem to be actually against Palestinian people, whom themselves also have a wide and diverse set of opinions about Hamas. The war is shockingly unpopular on both sides o…

> have a wide and diverse set of opinions about Hamas 75% of Palestinians "support the military operation carried out by the Palestinian resistance led by Hamas on October 7th." 76% have positive views of Hamas (other armed terrorist groups have even larger support). https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20...

a standard situation where the leaders of a public are dictators and control education and media access, similar to russians’ support of their own terrorist leaders
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