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OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

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Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#991

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What I wonder, as a computer scientist: If you want to solve grade school math problems, why not use an 'add' instruction? It's been around since the 50s, runs a billion times faster than an LLM, every assembly-language programmer knows how to use it, every high-level language has a one-token equivalent, and doesn't hallucinate answers (other than integer overflow). We also know how to solve complex reasoning chains…

There is a general result in machine learning known as "the bitter lesson"[1], which is that methods which come from specialist knowledge tend to be beaten by methods which rely on brute force computation in the long run because of Moore's law and the ability to scale things by distributed computing. So the reason people don't use the "add instruction"[2] for example is that over the last 70 years of attempting to bu…

Surely the "efficiency" is just being transferred from software to hardware e.g the hardware designers are having to come up with more efficient designs, shrink die sizes etc to cope with the inefficiency of the software engineers? We're starting to run into the limits of Moore's law in this regard when it comes to processors, although it looks like another race might be about to kick off for AI but with RAM instead. When you've got to the physical limits of both, is there anywhere else to go other than to make the software more efficient?

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#992

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A true Scotsman wrote a book about this, _The Wealth of Nations_. He observed how politicians use wars to increase taxes. Tech companies are exploiting our fear of AGI to get voluntary taxes. Time to give Henney Penny a call.

This is your conclusion from the drama at OpenAI? The tech companies are "exploiting our fear of AGI to get voluntary taxes". I don't know what planet you're on, but it doesn't seem to be the same one I think I'm on.

What do you call it when corporations with more money than you can imagine use that to convince you to buy things you don't need?

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#993

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is your conclusion from the drama at OpenAI? The tech companies are "exploiting our fear of AGI to get voluntary taxes". I don't know what planet you're on, but it doesn't seem to be the same one I think I'm on.

What do you call it when corporations with more money than you can imagine use that to convince you to buy things you don't need?

There's a lot of things you could call it.

"getting voluntary taxes" doesn't spring to the top of the list.

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#994

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it's always nice to see HN commenters with so much confidence in themselves that they feel they know a situation better than the people who are actually in the situation being discussed . Do you really believe that they don't have skilled people on staff? Do you really believe that your knowledge of what OpenAI is doing is a superset of the knowledge of the people who work at OpenAI? give me 0.1% of your confidence a…

The people inside a cult are not the most trustworthy sources for what the cult is doing.

it is very odd that you consider OpenAI a cult.

go spend time in a cult, then come back and tell us how much of a cult OpenAI is.

you know nothing

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#995
post #874

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I remember some time ago watching an episode of the Joe Rogan show(it had some comedic value back then) He and his friends were talking about the MIT admittance exam, pointing out the square root in the maths problem as an indication that this math problem was really hard. And I thought to myself "that's what primary school children learn around here at age 12 in my literally 3rd world country". Pythagoras was around…

I'm in the U.S., and we learned those things around that age too, maybe a little older.

That's interesting. Was that in a public school? Would you be willing to share your state and if you believe your experience represents a national average or is above/below the national average in regards to "at what age do children learn about square root"?

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#996
post #491

I feel very comfortable saying, as a mathematician, that the ability to solve grade school maths problems would not be at all a predictor of ability to solve real mathematical problems at a research level. The reason LLMs fail at solving mathematical problems is because: 1) they are terrible at arithmetic, 2) they are terrible at algebra, but most importantly, 3) they are terrible at complex reasoning (more specifica…

To some degree you are right, but I think you forget, that the things they solved already (talking and reasoning about a world that was only presented in the form of abstractions (words)) were supposed to be harder than having a good understanding of numbers, quantities, and logical terms.

My guess is, that they saw the problems ChatGPT has today and worked on solving those problems. And given how important numbers are, they tried to fix how ChatGPT handles/understands numbers. After doing that, they saw how this new version performed much better and predicted, that further work in this area could lead to solving real-world math problems.

I don't think that we will be presented with the highway to singularity, but probably one more step in that direction.

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#997
post #885
post #832

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Thanks for the links, very interesting. Wonder how a "self-play" equivalent would look like for LLMs, since they have no easy criterion to evaluate how well they are doing like in Go (as mentioned in the videos).

In math specifically, one could easily imagine a reward signal from some automated theorem proving engine

Yeah. I went into some detail of how it might work here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38036986

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#999
post #952

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> Why would we teach kids maths then, when they can use a calculator? It's much easier and faster for them. I am five years older than my brother, and we happened to land just on opposite sides of when children were still being taught mental arithmetic and when it was assumed they would, in fact, have calculators in their pockets. It drives him crazy that I can do basic day-to-day arithmetic in my head faster than he…

Skull has limited volume. What room is unused by one capacity may be used by another.

Even if that were true, I can count on one hand the number of times I've needed to use anything more than basic algebra (which is basically arithmetic with a placeholder) in my adult life. I think I'd genuinely rather keep arithmetic in my head than calculator use.

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#1000
post #526
post #508

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ChatGPT (3.5) seems to do some rudimentary backtracking when told it's wrong enough times. However, it does seem to do very poorly in the logic department. LLMs can't seem to pick out nuance and separate similar ideas that are technically/logically different. They're good at putting things together commonly found together but not so good at separating concepts back out into more detailed sub pieces.

I've tested GPT-4 on this and it can be induced to give up on certain lines of argument after recognising they aren't leading anywhere and to try something else. But it would require thousands (I'm really under exaggerating here) of restarts to get through even fairly simple problems that professional mathematicians solve routinely. Currently the context length isn't even long enough for it to remember what problem i…

I've pasted docs and error messages into GPT 3.5 and it's admitted it's wrong but usually it'll go through a few different answers before returning back to the original and looping
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