Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

It is telling that you perceive their comment as facetious, but not mine, even though mine was clearly written to mirror theirs in mockery.

In any case, claiming I have no empathy because I disagree with people exhibiting a lack of empathy is...an interesting take.

Claiming that I want to see homeless people suffer from addiction is an absolutely wild take.

Steel manning them while simultaneously straw manning me implies that you are not arguing in good faith, and it makes me doubtful that you are actually interested in finding a workable solution for addiction and homelessness.

Wow, legalizing across the board and requiring licensing was the idea I had. Force some kind of education requirements, pay into funds to provide treatment, and revoke licenses for those that abuse the privilege. This is what we do for other high risk activities like driving, skydiving, scuba diving, etc., it just makes sense to do it for drugs. This list is fantastic, it should be shouted across the nation. You have my vote.

Up front, I think Portugal has the right idea. Decriminilize drugs and do proper treatment with long term support. That is _not_ _at_ _all_ what the US does.

Generally, forcing people to give up drugs fails miserably. That further fails if there is no support post-detox. If a person is not willing, their relapse is exceedingly likely.

In the US, release from jail is pretty much literally the door is opened and you get to walk out with what you had when you came in. There's effectively zero post-release support in the US.

What's more, not all drugs have blockers that a person can take (eg: Meth, cocaine, nicotine), and not everyone can get access to those blockers.

Blockers are great things, but if a person does not want to do the blockers - it will not be effective. That is the point, it's not effective to just stick someone in a jail to treat them of their drug addiction, blockers or not. (US jails don't detox people with blockers, it's the hard way and often without medical supervision. That is even assuming they don't find drugs in jail, US jails notoriously have prolific black markets within them, many people leave US jail more addicted than when they came in)

What's more, blockers are just one part to deal with the chemical dependency (which, as tough as that part is, is arguably the easy part of it all [which is just to say how hard it is to change your lifestyle to develop healthy coping mechanisms, to learn how to live without drugs). Thus, teaching someone new coping mechanisms for stress, particularly when they are leading a very stressful life - is an immense challenge. The US has not instituted anything like Portugal, let alone job programs for people that are not having substance abuse problems. The scale of the two problems are different too. The US has 30x the population and virtually no willingness to spend money on social programs (a ton more people, and even less money to go towards the problem)

For some stats:

"As of 2020, over 37 million people 12 and older actively used illicit substances... 25.4% of all users of illicit drugs suffer from drug dependency or addiction."

https://www.addictionhelp.com/addiction/statistics/#

There are more people in the US that could use treatment compared to there even being people in Portugal! (population of portugal, per some quick googling, is 10M)

>> "Mandatory Rehab and Relapse"

>> "Researchers compared relapse rates for those in mandated opioid addiction treatment to those in voluntary centers. They found that almost 50 percent of the mandated patients relapsed within a month of their release, while only 10 percent of voluntary graduates relapsed." [1]

> No, this is old stigma-based thinking, just from the other point of view. There's no need for someone to do the monumental task of detoxing and through shear willpower, deny any future hits.

This is not what I'm saying. Detox is one part of the journey. Undoubtedly detox is hard, but the sustained effort to stay clean is more what I was referring to. If a person does not want to change their lifestyle, or if they are busy escaping their life - then something is needed like the Portugal example.

It looks like Portugal has long decriminilized all drugs (since 2000). [2]

> It needs to be jail, but your choice of jail with rehab or just jail

To be sure, I'm speaking from a US centric perspective where the full offense is often simple possesion. The chance of re-offending there is particularly high because jail is not treatment, mandatory detox is also not treatment.

Which is kind of interesting the model example is how Portugal does it, yet they did full decriminalization 20 years ago (so jail is not even part of the picture).

[1] https://recovery.org/is-relapse-inevitable-with-forced-sobri...

[2] https://substanceabusepolicy.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1...

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I think this conversation also goes to why the term 'addiction' is often no longer used. Detox is one thing, but teaching someone how to deal with stress takes more. When I was a heavy tobacco user, the habit part was a distinct and big part of the overall "addiction." It was one thing to get off of nicotine, it was another to learn that the way to deal with stress was not to go

6. We need to research and fund more effective substance abuse treatment. There is a surprising dearth of evidence-based treatment programs out there. Having gone through a few court-mandated programs myself, I cannot express enough how useless these were. Show up to a few meetings, watch some ludicrous after-school scared-straight specials, attend a number of NA meetings listening to junkies relate the same rock bottom stories over and over, the occasional piss test (which either didn't even test for the drugs I was on or could be beat by staying clean for just a few days) and probably the only helpful thing: community service. The most effective experience I had getting clean wasn't even a drug program at all: living at a yoga commune for several months as part of their volunteer program. Something about living away from regular life, with a variety of people (not just users), having all my basic needs met, meditating and doing yoga every day, living simply and having jobs to do around the compound, in a totally non judgemental or condescending atmosphere free of conversations that constantly focused on drugs or addiction, really helped me reset. Maybe that only works for me, I don't know what works for other people, but there might be something to that experience that can be applied to other programs as well.

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