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Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

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Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#991
post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't stop that, and personally, I don't think its a good idea. To get it you'd need a nanny state that snoops on everyone and steps in to stop you "for your own safety". It's easy to imagine scenarios where this gets out of hand. Personally, I think it ought to be illegal to misrepresent your service’s safety. I seriously doubt the passengers onboard were aware of OceanGate’s whistleblower lawsuit or the claim…

> Personally, I think it ought to be illegal to misrepresent your service’s safety Of course it is. But I think GP was just saying that there are no agencies to check rare venture like this. At least not before an incident happens.

> But I think GP was just saying that there are no agencies to check rare venture like this. At least not before an incident happens.

No. That poster was not just making positive claims. They also made normative and prescriptive claims, which I am pushing back on.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#992

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that’s my point; approval processes are always gamed around because of the cost such processes impose. You can’t just say oh the rules ought to be perfect and perfectly implemented for it to work. That’s not a world in which we live in. In fact, the more thorough the process, the more to gain in working around it. In the meantime such processes add much to the expense such that only larger well-funded and well-connec…

>It’s a reason planes basically look the same for many decades too; newer stuff is harder to get through. Not true. The reason planes look the same is because that's simply the optimal shape and layout, aerodynamically, for carrying passengers in the most fuel-efficient manner. Ask any aerospace engineer. But there's been some big differences if you look more closely. Engine nacelles are a lot larger than they were 5…

> the problem is that this particular regulatory agency was corrupt and failed in its primary duty.

What regulatory agency isn't captured?

If you make a regulatory body, you want to staff it with those who 'know' about the subject. That's going to come from the most well-known groups at the time. These are people, and they had lives and friends before in the groups they came from. So, naturally, a lighter touch will be given to some from the same groups, but not to others who are unknown; and that's best case.

Also, I have seen no evidence that any regulatory body has done much to help safety, and they will definitely discourage risk-taking. Planes for instance, were getting better and safer before the FAA arrived. Concern for the environment grew before the EPA, workplace safety increased before OSHA, and so on. All these agencies (because they are staffed again by people, who want to keep their jobs - ask a doctor, he'll say you need a doctor, etc.) will point to the improvements after their inception, and say, "look at the good job we do!". It does not hold though, that these improvements would not have occurred without the agency, and it could very well be the case that improvements come sooner.

For instance, the current basic airframe might be best, but few try other designs, like a lift body, or a flying wing, which might be more efficient. I know the B-2 bomber was based on a flying wing design and does need sophisticated computer control of the control surfaces though, to work without a tail, and that's costly enough to get right. Add the FAA rules on top, and, as has happened, that idea dies early on the vine. You might say that's a good thing, and maybe in this case it was, but it also clearly wasn't tried for very long either, and the attempts would draw greater scrutiny from the FAA.

And that's a shame.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#993

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> risks are nearly impossible to assess this is total fabrication, we have submarines for 200 years. WW1 german u-boats were safer than this piece of crap

We’ve had subs, but not mini subs that go to 4km depths.

We sent a mini sub to explore the deepest point on earth 60 years ago.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#994

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It’s a reason planes basically look the same for many decades too; newer stuff is harder to get through. Not true. The reason planes look the same is because that's simply the optimal shape and layout, aerodynamically, for carrying passengers in the most fuel-efficient manner. Ask any aerospace engineer. But there's been some big differences if you look more closely. Engine nacelles are a lot larger than they were 5…

> the problem is that this particular regulatory agency was corrupt and failed in its primary duty. What regulatory agency isn't captured? If you make a regulatory body, you want to staff it with those who 'know' about the subject. That's going to come from the most well-known groups at the time. These are people, and they had lives and friends before in the groups they came from. So, naturally, a lighter touch will…

>Also, I have seen no evidence that any regulatory body has done much to help safety

Stockton Rush, is that you? Aren't you dead? Or are you a big fan of his?

>Concern for the environment grew before the EPA

That sounds like "thoughts and prayers". "Concern" doesn't protect the environment; laws and enforcement does. The EPA was made for a good reason.

>workplace safety increased before OSHA

Some, but not in other places, just like the EPA. OSHA made rules and enforced them, so everyone got workplace safety, not just some places where management cared enough.

>ask a doctor, he'll say you need a doctor

Yes, because everyone eventually gets some illness that requires the services of a doctor. Many illnesses are only detectable with tests.

>For instance, the current basic airframe might be best, but few try other designs, like a lift body, or a flying wing, which might be more efficient.

You can read stuff all over the internet explaining why flying works don't work for passengers; it's not because of "regulation", it's because it's just a bad design for that. It's only used for bombers because it gives them stealth (combined with other design choices), and bombers don't need pressurization. Pressurizing a flying wing adds lots of weight, and to get equivalent internal volume, the design requires a huge wingspan that airports can't handle. It has nothing to do with FAA rules, and everything to do with physics.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#995

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve owned and used Virpil and VKB, and they’re both terrific (Virpil is just insanely over the top good, though), but I wouldn’t even think to put them in the same sentence as Logitech. And I think Logitech makes pretty good peripherals generally! But that enthusiast sim stuff is just in a different realm. Anyway, my point is, I wouldn’t necessarily look down on a Logitech controller. Now if it were MadCatz….

And yet, the Logitech X56 is substantially more expensive than a VKB Gladiator...

Huh. Gladiator is way cheaper than I remember. Would still be a bargain at twice the price.

At this point, I probably have about $900 sunk into Virpil controls. The Alpha grip and base, the Mongoose throttle and an extra control panel I just ordered. Just absolutely love the feel and functionality.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#996
post #16
post #3

The US Navy uses an Xbox 360 controller in active service [0] Mass market has a lot of R&D to leverage so it makes sense. Nothing to say this is the cause of the fault and probably going to be more reliable than something hand rolled. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/19/16333376/us-navy-military...

I personally believe using mass market makes sense. I don't understand the criticism I've seen on this website for using off the shelf controllers or camping lights (what do you expect, an LED strip magically engineered by a large aeronautics firm specifically for the sub? and what would that change?). That being said, the difference between a Microsoft controller and a third party is that Microsoft very certainly di…

> (and it shows)

bought two official xbox controllers and they both broke within six months so…

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#997
post #873

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the general case that is more or less accurate. There are however a bunch of exceptions in the extreme case. Rescue services do have a point where they will decide not to continue. During the Tham Luang cave rescue (the thai football boys that got stuck in a cave) there was a period where the rescue services decided that continuing was just too dangerous. It was only because of a handful private cave divers was cr…

> We could argue that those risky activities should be illegal (or shamed), but the counter argument is that a lot of activities are just inherently risky. There are always going to be distinctions. We allow motorcycles but we don't allow motorized wheelbarrows, or unicycles that can go 60mph. Why? History and tradition, practicality -- whatever the reason, it doesn't necessarily have to make sense and it surely wasn…

motorized wheelbarrows

I've heard dumber ideas, such as....

unicycles that can go 60mph

A hand-guided mecha-wheelbarrow would be incredibly helpful for people who would like to do more of their own gardening and landscaping but who don't have the physique for it. I'm now going to spend half a day thinking about how something like that could be built to work reliably, economically, and safely, while other people on HN have probably already spent half a day thinking about how to prohibit it.

Then, back to that unicycle thing. Your "bad ideas" make fascinating engineering challenges. Gotta give credit where it's due.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#998

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We could argue that those risky activities should be illegal (or shamed), but the counter argument is that a lot of activities are just inherently risky. There are always going to be distinctions. We allow motorcycles but we don't allow motorized wheelbarrows, or unicycles that can go 60mph. Why? History and tradition, practicality -- whatever the reason, it doesn't necessarily have to make sense and it surely wasn…

motorized wheelbarrows I've heard dumber ideas, such as.... unicycles that can go 60mph A hand-guided mecha-wheelbarrow would be incredibly helpful for people who would like to do more of their own gardening and landscaping but who don't have the physique for it. I'm now going to spend half a day thinking about how something like that could be built to work reliably, economically, and safely, while other people on HN…

You obviously weren't paying attention to anything I wrote besides looking for things to criticize. I was saying that those things are all bad ideas but we allow some and not others for reasons that go beyond 'bad' and it is not for us to judge or change.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#999

Earlier quoted context omitted.

motorized wheelbarrows I've heard dumber ideas, such as.... unicycles that can go 60mph A hand-guided mecha-wheelbarrow would be incredibly helpful for people who would like to do more of their own gardening and landscaping but who don't have the physique for it. I'm now going to spend half a day thinking about how something like that could be built to work reliably, economically, and safely, while other people on HN…

You obviously weren't paying attention to anything I wrote besides looking for things to criticize. I was saying that those things are all bad ideas but we allow some and not others for reasons that go beyond 'bad' and it is not for us to judge or change.

I seriously want a motorized wheelbarrow now, though. That's your fault.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#1000

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You obviously weren't paying attention to anything I wrote besides looking for things to criticize. I was saying that those things are all bad ideas but we allow some and not others for reasons that go beyond 'bad' and it is not for us to judge or change.

I seriously want a motorized wheelbarrow now, though. That's your fault.

It doesn't seem that difficult. Get an electronic speed controller and a hub motor from a trashed e-scooter (10" wheels should work?) put a battery pack on it and rig the throttle to a cable on the handle.
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