Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech • Hacker News Board

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#991

Post by 93po » Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 6:51 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #846

93po wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one had a problem dismissing Seth Rich as a random murder. People just believe what fits their narrative.

Nobody ever produced any evidence to the contrary. I've read hundreds of blog posts saying he 'must have' been murdered by powerful political figures on the basis that powerful figures have means, motives, and opportunities that are not available to most ordinary folk, and therefore that mere possibility is sufficient to be considered a probability. The absence of evidence is thrown back as 'proof' of a cover-up.

The point is more that the local police said it was likely a robbery gone wrong when there's no evidence for that and every media outlet repeats it as fact and "nothing to see here". The would-be robbers didn't wind up taking anything from him and it's not a neighborhood known for a high crime rate. There's also tons of other "but but but" coverage, including extensively in the Wikipedia article on the topic, that completely misses the point.

The person who published the DNC leaks said it was an inside source and that it wasn't a foreign government. No one seems to believe this despite no evidence to the contrary (and other groups having access to the same information is not evidence, since it was proven that multiple groups did)

Anyway it's too much to cover here and is off topic and I'm not going to change any minds, so i'll leave it there

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#992

Post by kelnos » Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 8:37 PM UTC

renlo wrote: post #627

timmytokyo wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every major city has a crime problem and always has. The question is whether the situation is being blown out of proportion by sensationalist media or people with axes to grind. For a group that claims to be so rational, much of the HN crowd commenting here does seem to be averse to relying upon actual data.

Anecdotally whenever I hear a SF resident say the "crime problem is overblown", they almost always live in the nicer areas where there's virtually no crime. I lived on the border of the Tenderloin years ago, and saw things that I've never seen anywhere else. I knew a guy who was murdered in the Polk Gulch, I had my car broken into (and rummaged through multiple times after I started leaving the door unlocked), I had…

I think the question is: where did you move in New York? When you were in SF, you chose to live in/near the worst neighborhood in the city. I assume when you moved to NY, you moved somewhere a bit nicer? Do you truly believe NY has no "bad areas" that you should avoid?

This doesn't excuse the crime in the Tenderloin, but when people talk about the SF crime problem being overblown, they mean to say that there is an expected level of crime in most cities, and SF's level of crime is no worse than many others, despite what some people would like to believe.

That doesn't mean the crime in the Tenderloin is ok! But it's important to put things in context, and decide if SF is doing better or worse than other comparable cities in dealing with crime. Stats seem to point to the idea that SF is doing ok in that regard. That doesn't mean they can't and shouldn't do better, but it does mean that the sky is not falling, and there's no reason for extreme panic over SF's crime rate.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#993

Post by kelnos » Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 8:41 PM UTC

JimDabell wrote: post #630

timmytokyo wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every major city has a crime problem and always has. The question is whether the situation is being blown out of proportion by sensationalist media or people with axes to grind. For a group that claims to be so rational, much of the HN crowd commenting here does seem to be averse to relying upon actual data.

> Every major city has a crime problem and always has. This isn’t true. The idea that cities must inherently have crime problems is a form of learned helplessness. You think they must have crime problems because it’s all you’ve ever experienced. Try visiting a city that has low crime, like Singapore or Tokyo.

> Try visiting a city that has low crime, like Singapore or Tokyo.

Singapore's lower crime rate is achieved by having a nanny-state government run by an autocrat, with cruel, harsh punishments for fairly low-level offenses and little care for due process. If that's what is required to get us low crime, then I will reluctantly accept higher crime rates.

Tokyo is absolutely not a low-crime city. The Japanese authorities try to paint it as such, and deal with problems quietly. News outlets don't report on much of the crime that goes on; I'm not sure why, but a reasonable guess might be due to pressure from authorities. But I assure you there's plenty of crime (especially organized crime) to go around in Tokyo; it's just not very visible.

Japan also has a near-100% conviction rate, not because they're always right, but because they value clearing cases off their books more than ensuring justice is served. The US justice system is far from perfect, but I prefer what we have here over Japan's.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#994

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 » Fri, Apr 14, 2023, 9:34 PM UTC

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #939

mztwo wrote: post #22

As the news media and twitterverse peddled the whole "crime-ridden SF" angle, I felt myself getting drawn into the same topic and agreeing with numerous friends on how much the city has declined. This is a good reminder of how we gravitate towards powerful emotional narratives, which in the moment can feel absolutely true despite an utter lack of supporting facts on an individual murder case. I hope this brings some…

Maybe it's time to stop paying attention to what Elon Musk and other so-called "tech industry" people publish on the internet. These are not journalists and it is not "news". It's garbage. Maybe it's time to wake up. One can only imagine what these two "tech industry" people were arguing about before one killed the other. The media reports make them sound like such wonderfully nice people, drinking and driving around…

Correction: It was a Monday night.

It's doubtful moving to Miami could have much to do with safety as Miami has higher crime rates than SF. More likely the reason was political.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#995

Post by kevviiinn » Sat, Apr 15, 2023, 12:45 AM UTC

david38 wrote: post #923

kevviiinn wrote: post #918

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, being homeless. One of the greatest crimes

Right. Breaking into cars is a requirement of being homeless and done only by the homeless

Definitely. I've absolutely never heard of young college kids breaking into cars

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#996

Post by briantakita » Sat, Apr 15, 2023, 3:11 AM UTC

rnk wrote: post #877

briantakita wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm personally not into incarcerating mass amounts of people, as it only centralizes a prison industrial complex. Rather, one glaring issue is dangerous drugs showing up on our streets & the conditions that lead to this usage. In the comment you linked to, I noted Kensington Ave in Philadelphia, where there are videos of many people on hard drugs stooped over. Many people, who would otherwise have happier lives are n…

How does neoliberalism cause people to get addicted to drugs?

The increased supply of hard drugs & the apparent lack of enforcement against the supply chains of hard drugs.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#997

Post by briantakita » Sat, Apr 15, 2023, 3:17 AM UTC

thethethethe wrote: post #759

briantakita wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm personally not into incarcerating mass amounts of people, as it only centralizes a prison industrial complex. Rather, one glaring issue is dangerous drugs showing up on our streets & the conditions that lead to this usage. In the comment you linked to, I noted Kensington Ave in Philadelphia, where there are videos of many people on hard drugs stooped over. Many people, who would otherwise have happier lives are n…

> Many people, who would otherwise have happier lives are now dealing with addiction & living on the streets. I don't know about you but I don't know anyone who fell into drug use and homelessness who had happy lives. I think people who are homeless and or addicted to drugs are addicted to drugs because there lives are not good. If you improve economic and social conditions for people, drug abuse becomes less of a pr…

I dont know of any people who are happier addicted to hard drugs than not addicted to hard drugs. If the supply of hard & tainted drugs increases, then people with addictions are more likely to increase their consumption of these drugs.

The problem & solution space involves more than just enforcement. A root cause is the ineffectiveness & corruption in social safety net programs including housing, drug treatment, & other domains. Not saying we should not have any programs but the ineffectiveness with increasing budgets speaks for itself. Effective & efficient programs should be rewarded while ineffective & inefficient programs should be discontinued.

Government agencies which engage in harmful activities such as drug trafficking should be reformed or disbanded. I don't expect the status quo to change, as we didn't get into this mess with rational institutions, but its worthwhile to have a sober view of root causes to at least put pressure on the institutions to be more rational.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#998

Post by uncletaco » Sat, Apr 15, 2023, 4:48 PM UTC

kodah wrote: post #984

uncletaco wrote: post #971

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Both sides"

I get quite tired of catty replies like this. If you think "your side" doesn't contribute to an ecosystem of cause and effect I don't know what to tell you. If you're so fragile that you need to hear it spelled out, "The right is still on average worse than you but you're still bad" then I also don't know what to tell you. Maybe, just, don't participate in discourse or something. Your opinion isn't needed, wanted, or…

I don't think I'm the fragile one here but go off

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#999

Post by mlyle » Sat, Apr 15, 2023, 5:20 PM UTC

stonogo wrote: post #714

lelanthran wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there were about 130 gun injuries/deaths per 100k in a recent year -- in SF, about 30! Which is worse, getting shot, or avoiding poop on the sidewalk San Francisco is number 23 for violent crime in the list of cities on wikipedia. Your options are not "get shot in another city Vs avoiding poop on the sidewalk in San Francisco", it's "don't get hurt or killed in the average city Vs get hurt or killed in San Francisc…

Speaking of equivocation, no it isn't. It's number 23 for crime . If you sort by total in the violent crime section, it's well out of the top fifty. It's number four in property crime, which is awful, but not a measure of safety.

It's number 23 in alphabetical order, actually :D

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#1000

Post by achenet » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 8:04 AM UTC

misssocrates wrote: post #718

Convolutional wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the murder, I had to read scores of comments like this ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35456168 ) about the homeless, need for more law enforcement (although the US already incarcerates more of its population than any industrialized country) etc. I had to read scores of tech bros in the professional-managerial class whinge about the poor, about black lives matter and how this was due to "progressivism".…

What percentage are entrepreneurs and what percentage are people with mental health problems and or drug addiction?

read your comment as "what percentage of entrepreneurs are people with mental health problems and or drug addiction?" which actually is a really interesting question.