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I wish GPT4 had never happened

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Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#991

Post by Herval_freire »

spyckie2 wrote: post #990
Herval_freire wrote: post #938

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right so if I'm a janitor and I use chemicals to clean things which is the result of hundreds of years of human ingenuity and chemical engineering I suddenly owe humanity money? No. That is the perverted idea. I'm simply talking about fair as in fair trade. As in what is defined as a fair trade and a fair transaction according to economic theory and common sense. I am using the absolute most normal and most common se…

"Fairness" in this definition is tied to a belief that everyone deserves a decent life. The thought is this: we are not a society of cavemen or subsistence farmers. We're the richest society in our history by far, so all people should enjoy the fruits of such a society. Let's say you develop a debilitating illness that robs you of your ability to produce income. Or, you have a loved one—a child—that is debilitated an…

No. I agree that it is morally right to help people in need. But it is not a fair trade.

You cannot redefine the term "fair" to be inline with your moral values. We have different terms for what you are referring to. When you donate to a charity you use the word "donate". You have not conducted a fair transaction.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#992

Post by nextlevelwizard »

leros wrote: post #686
nextlevelwizard wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point of life is not working, the point of life is to enjoy it. We should strive to eliminate as many jobs as we possibly can, the less we have to work the better it is. I would go fucking insane if I didn’t have a purpose. Jobs are necessary part of life.

You could replace your job with pursuits of person interests. I would rather devote my life to a plethora of hobbies than a career.

> would rather devote my life to a plethora of hobbies than a career.

Such as?

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#993

Post by Simon321 »

tmdroid001 wrote: post #952
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people find meaning, fulfillment, even contentment in working, especially when the problems are engaging and the solutions produce value You think people get meaning and fulfilment from flipping burgers at McDonalds ? Talk about naive. Frankly, it's quite elitist to assume that a majority of people are performing meaningful and fulfilling jobs, a lot of people do jobs they absolutely hate. > Not working is a s…

If no people like doing that, than who will do it? Who will do the hard or nasty jobs that nobody likes to do? Where are you going to eat your next McDonald's burger? Cuz all restaurants will be closed cuz nobody really likes doing that full time but it pays the bills. There are just so many jobs that need to be done and there's nobody that likes them. Who would pick the garbage up? Who would unclog the sewer? Who wo…

Well, that's the whole point of the article you're replying to! His whole problem is that AI will do those jobs and he doesn't like that.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#994

Post by fnl »

fnl wrote: post #973
imtringued wrote: post #962

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry but fractional reserve banking isn't the problem, nor is debt based money the problem. You can't solve the problem without allowing interest rates to be negative when people want to pay off their debts at a faster rate than people wanting to spend off their credits/deposits. The problem is quite simple. Money has no maturity but debt has a deadline. This asymmetry causes problems regardless of whether you…

I don’t think Daly is suggesting to move away from debt as an instrument in his work, only to establish a 100% reserve system for commercial banks, including the Fed. He was suggesting to nationalize money supply via the Treasury, to avoid bank runs and fiascos like they happened just now to CS and SVB. Apparently, this was already the direction of thought among some economists in the 1920s (like Frank Knight and Irv…

Just to expand on the above, as two days later I now feel it is hard to understand how my reply is related to imtringued‘s last paragraph (“if you can fix the asymmetry or eliminate the zero lower bound it doesn't actually matter what form your money takes”):

If you don’t allow banks to “print debt” out of thin air by eliminating fractional reserve banking, as Daly suggested in his work, I believe you eliminate that asymmetry. Actual money is lent, actual money has to be returned.

The question that remains then is if it is valid to ask for interest on that money. But I believe that is acceptable, and the rate might be set to 0% or even negative in the right circumstances.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#995

Post by leros »

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #992
leros wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could replace your job with pursuits of person interests. I would rather devote my life to a plethora of hobbies than a career.

> would rather devote my life to a plethora of hobbies than a career. Such as?

Gardening, wood working, painting, flying, traveling, hiking, just to name a few

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#996

Post by michelledepeil »

kenjackson wrote: post #654
michelledepeil wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent some time thinking about this when the GPTs started becoming useful, and I'm glad to see my semi-prediction come true (related toot: https://fosstodon.org/@samuelnorbury/109799880269029379 ). Specifically: LLMs are great when you know what to ask for, and sort of know what the answer should be - call it a boilerplate machine - but bad if you're a novice, in which case meta-analysis of a query is needed to giv…

What does "novice" mean in this context? For example, I recently used chatGPT to explore file systems in the Linux kernel. I'm a novice in this field (but know Linux decently well, and the general field of file systems pretty well), but I could pretty easily tell the information it was giving me was correct.

When you don't have enough background knowledge to even verify whether the answer is plausible. Or when you don't know what question to ask.

It may very well be that newer AIs and models even manage to get that right more often, though. Or that a canny prompter will start by asking which question to subsequently ask.

As a side note, you're not a novice if you know the general field of file systems pretty well, IMHO.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#997

Post by HyperSane »

OOPMan wrote: post #929
HyperSane wrote: post #450

The fact that so many people fear loss of income as a result of better AI is a real indictment of our economic system. A better system that more fairly distributed economic productivity would make people welcome better AI because they could be confident it would make everyone wealthier instead of just a few people rich enough to be Goa'uld.

Ah yes, I'm sure you have a solution from one of the most difficult problems ever? It's easy to condemn the system but without a solution you're just barking in the wind... Just to be clear, I also think there are major issues with "the system", but I also don't think this is an easy problem to solve or everyone would be living in magical happy land already...

Extremely progressive taxation based on the gini coefficient that funds UBI.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#998

Post by HyperSane »

dyno12345 wrote: post #719
HyperSane wrote: post #450

The fact that so many people fear loss of income as a result of better AI is a real indictment of our economic system. A better system that more fairly distributed economic productivity would make people welcome better AI because they could be confident it would make everyone wealthier instead of just a few people rich enough to be Goa'uld.

the beauty of systems that don't actually exist is you can always think through how they would actually work later

My solution would be progressive tax rates proportional to the gini coefficient used to fund a UBI

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#999

Post by HyperSane »

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #664
HyperSane wrote: post #450

The fact that so many people fear loss of income as a result of better AI is a real indictment of our economic system. A better system that more fairly distributed economic productivity would make people welcome better AI because they could be confident it would make everyone wealthier instead of just a few people rich enough to be Goa'uld.

We haven’t come up with a better system.

Yes we did during the 50s and 60s increases in GDP were far more evenly distributed.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#1000

Post by HyperSane »

kofejnik wrote: post #473
HyperSane wrote: post #450

The fact that so many people fear loss of income as a result of better AI is a real indictment of our economic system. A better system that more fairly distributed economic productivity would make people welcome better AI because they could be confident it would make everyone wealthier instead of just a few people rich enough to be Goa'uld.

Define “fairly”

Increases in GDP are evenly distributed across ALL income brackets.
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