991–1000 of 1001 posts
Why We Terminated Daily Stormer - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15031922 - 857 points | 2017-08-16 | 1574 (1526) comments
Terminating Service for 8Chan - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20610395 - 1098 points | 2019-08-05 | 1438 (1376) comments
And, https://hn.algolia.com/?query=8chan + https://hn.algolia.com/?query=stormer
Typical weasel word announcement from a big company bending over backwards to satisfy the prevailing voices of a political narrative. This has nothing to do with 'free speech' or 'due process'. It is about ensuring a brand stays appealing. I say this because they weren't specific about the credibility of any 'threats' made. They invented an enemy and then used it to justify suppressing Kiwifarms --as a whole--. Very…
> You need to differentiate between the actions of a user/s and the site. You do realise that KF was started to bully an autistic sonic fan, right? Have you actually been there?
I think a lot of people in the comments don't understand what Kiwifarms is. I say this as someone who occasionally browses there and gets some (admittedly sick) enjoyment from it: the main draw of the website is a place for people to get together and bully mentally ill "weirdos". It's not just about people posting offensive shit in their own little corner of the internet - what happens there spreads out, by design, i…
Is it like libsoftiktok?
Reading over the comments I see everyone thinking this is about “free speech.” It is not. It’s about what in the US you’d call “due process” and in all the rest of the world you’d call “rule of law.” Our decision today was that the risk created by the content could not be dealt with in a timely enough matter by the traditional rule of law systems. That’s a failure of the rule of law on two dimensions: we shouldn’t be…
It’s nonsense this has anything to do with the law. This solely happened because of mainstream media pressure and significant clients moving or threatening to move away from Cloudflare and the board deciding they don’t need the bad press and loss of customers and nothing else. You provide a service and like every service provider you have a TOS/AUP. The issue is the Acceptable Use Paragraph is clear as long as the co…
Actually, if they processed data from any European person they would be required to follow GDPR. And if they processed data from any Brazilian they would be required to follow LGPD.
Any significant deliberate blindness towards privacy, defamation, and hate speech laws are unlawful acts that must be punished according to the Law. Idealy by extraditing the website administrators so they can they can face criminal charges over their misconduct.
The problem with cases like this one is that they really show the inadequacy of the geographic government model in the age of the internet. If a Czech citizen, currently living in Slovakia, doxxx a British person resident in Canada on a site hosted in the Maldives and managed by a Japanese citizen, protected by a German server owned by an American security company, which government has the right to order the content…
1) Country of the victim's residency.
2) Country of the agressor's residency.
3) Country where the web site is legally headquartered.
4) Country where the web site administrators are residing.
5) Country where the physical servers are.
6) Any other country that somehow can claim some reasonable connection to the case.
Of course, the ideal thing would be to setup some sort of world-wide ECHR to sort out any jurisdictional issues and perhaps even rule in some cases.
Something I am curious about is why these things (de-platforming of websites for example) are so US-centric. What I'm wondering is whether it is because: 1. Only US-based websites and forums get to that level of extremism that is cause for de-platforming. I find this option the hardest to believe (pretty sure there are hideous things in other countries as well). 2. The infra is mostly US-based (Cloudflare, cloud prov…
Because in places like Brazil racists and bigots can be easily-ish arrested long before they reach that level of extremism. For example, throwing racist insults at another person in Brazil is a literal crime for which you can be arested by anyone.
Also, places like Brazil make website owner legally liable for user content if the website does not comply with court orders.
> 2. The infra is mostly US-based (Cloudflare, cloud providers, etc.), they are focused or getting their attention drawn specifically to US-centric topics.
> 3. It happens in other counties as well, but because HN is US-centric I am hearing about the instances that are dealing with US topics.
I think that's partially true. However, the big issue is that the US has an absurd view of free speech that doesn't line with anyone else and as such the US hasn't really ratified the ICCPR nor does the US enforce foriegn court orders on matters related to free speech (see the SPEECH act). So anytime anything bad happens anywhere in the world people are forced to go to the media instead of the US government for help.
> Would love to learn about similar cases from other countries.
In Brazil, Justice Alexandre de Moraes ordered the arrest of congressman Daniel Silveira for his antidemocratic activities. Because congresspeople can only be arested _in flagrante delicto_, that justice came up with the novel legal theory that everytime a person watches a video you posted it's like if you were speaking the same words again and thus if there's any crime there, you can be arrested at any time so long as the video is still up.
I'm of course simplyfing. Daniel Silveira, if I recall correctly, was involved in groups making physical threats against the Supreme Court Justices among other stuff.
Some useful sources: (in Portuguese)
https://www.conjur.com.br/2021-fev-17/especialistas-defendem...
https://www.camara.leg.br/noticias/729294-camara-decide-mant...
https://g1.globo.com/politica/noticia/2022/04/29/alexandre-d...
https://www.conjur.com.br/2022-jun-22/bloqueio-paginas-pco-g...
https://www.conjur.com.br/2022-set-06/tre-rj-nega-registro-c... (that congressman was barred from running for relection)
https://veja.abril.com.br/politica/deputado-do-psl-ameaca-st... (he said he would volunteer to physically/militarily attack the court)
I agree with CloudFlare's stance about security tooling I agree with this decision I agree with their hesitance to consider this their privilege Frankly I am impressed with how CF handled this That being said, timing is a bit sus with their stock price. Although I think I believe they are standing on principal, it's easy to make a case that they are just watching the market and responding.
Stock price?
I am a free speech absolutist, but I read the Wikipedia page on this site and it seems bad. "Crimes were committed," "People lost their lives" bad. Unjustifiably bad. That said, is anyone willing to steelman this website? Could this possibly be construed as just a big misunderstanding?
If yes, Cloudflare is also responsible for death (and more of them) and should be shut down, if no then Kiwifarms is not responsible for death.