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Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

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Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#991

Post by [deleted] »

notch656a wrote: post #531
eksx wrote: post #54

I work in tech with no college degree and about 9 years of programming experience. I make mid 100,000's per year. My S/O has 6 years of Emergency Department experience and a bachelors degree and she made about 65k at our local hospital. I think pay is an enormous factor in this. Her local hospital has nurses with less than 1 year of experience being preceptors to new grads.

How long did it take you to break 100k? Be sure to include those pre-employed years when you didn't even know what 'if' statement meant. A nurse can hit that in 6 years easy through BSN+NP, and that's starting at literally NOTHING. (Alternatively there's a like path for PAs to practice in a mid-level practitioner role that is comparable to NP in those same 6 years)

[deleted]

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#992

Post by Master_Odin »

rvba wrote: post #503
Shuang1 wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That case goes far beyond med error and I don't understand why people keep bringing it up as an example. She pulled the wrong med, and then injected it and walked out of the room rather than observing for effects. Also the med she pulled had warnings on all sides of the bottle and on the top saying very clearly that it's fatal to administer without ventilation. This went beyond a mistake to negligence.

> She pulled the wrong med, and then injected it and walked out of the room rather than observing for effects With staff shortages nurses dont have the time for that. Hire 2x more nurses - so there is 2x more time for each patient.

My GF is a nurse and I've heard her talk about working a number of 12 hour shifts and not having the ability to go to the bathroom, get water, or have lunch, all because of how strapped the unit is and arduous the requirement is to do these things (usually having to leave the unit). I'm honestly shocked we're not hearing more mistakes, and it should be 100% hospital admins on the chopping block for forcing these insane work environments upon nurses while expecting quality patient care.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#993

Post by Master_Odin »

urthor wrote: post #899
pfisherman wrote: post #814

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IT systems that they have to use were designed by people who have not talked with the workers who use them. They may have been designed with laws and compliance in mind. Nurses aren't the people who choose or pay for these systems. But, they use them a lot (maybe the most) and it's obvious they weren't taken into account when designing the UX. It's maddening for them. I can speak to this a bit. After interviewing l…

Apple made that money from selling Airpods to the entire globe however. Part of EHR's problems are definitely that the market is only one single country, the United States.

And even within that single country, each state and hospital then has their own requirements around EHRs. This ends up being my biggest issue with EHR is that you need to support infinite flexibility for all the unique snowflakes that exist. I'm convinced healthcare would improve in this country if the federal government standardized all of this to a single setup. This also includes the mess that is EHR in EMS.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#994

Post by legacynl »

triska wrote: post #587
ayngg wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think that this is just one example of many across a ton of disciplines where people like Nurses basically are forced to deal with costs and responsibilities offloaded onto them from above the responsibility chain. Resources are eaten up at the top of the chain to their benefit and costs are offloaded down the chain until it reaches people like Nurses at the end of the line who have to deal with it because…

I think this is due to Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy : https://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html "In any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy, many of the engineers and launch technicians and scientists at NASA, even some agric…

That's why you need unions

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#995

Post by SamuelAdams »

dguest wrote: post #905
pbuzbee wrote: post #573

Is this a shock? - Demanding work: 12 hour shifts, irregular schedules, night shifts, physically exhausting, limited breaks (including bathroom/water!) - High responsibility with unsafe conditions. You're literally responsible for people's lives. Poor staffing ratios stretch you thin and make you more likely to make mistakes. And if you make a mistake, you're at huge risk for litigation... and now criminal consequenc…

The traveling nurse phenomenon is exemplary bureaucratic absurdity. To paraphrase a conversation with a nurse friend: Nurse: It's really hard for us to hold on to our good nurses, we can't afford support staff so they get stressed out and leave for traveling gigs. Me: Why can't you afford support staff? Nurse: The traveling nurses cost 3x more. We have to hire traveling nurses to replace the ones that left for travel…

Part of it is that travelers are contractors. Management only has to pay for that contract for 3-6 months, then technically that cost is no longer an issue.

Whereas an FTE nurse is a recurring annual expense, so higher wages will lead to higher long-term costs.

Everyone in hospital administration is expecting demand to die down once COVID surges die down, so they don’t want to make any long-term financial changes.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#996

Post by sydbarrett74 »

zamfi wrote: post #880
ayngg wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think that this is just one example of many across a ton of disciplines where people like Nurses basically are forced to deal with costs and responsibilities offloaded onto them from above the responsibility chain. Resources are eaten up at the top of the chain to their benefit and costs are offloaded down the chain until it reaches people like Nurses at the end of the line who have to deal with it because…

> academia which is rife with money sloshing around In the academia that contains money sloshing around, the only grad students teaching are the ones who want to. In the academia that doesn't contain money sloshing around, it's a different story. But the truth is, no one in academia is making bank from academia directly -- not the grad students, certainly, but also not the adjuncts, or even the professors. You have t…

No post body was provided.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#997

Post by mbrodersen »

Things will only change if nurses do more than just considering. Management don’t care as long as they have just enough nurses to get things done. Nurses are routinely sacrificed on the alter of higher profits and CEO bonuses. Only real action has any chance of changing the status quo.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#998

Post by kulahan »

cupofpython wrote: post #973
atoav wrote: post #892

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like with many jobs Covid revealed what society truly values and what not. Sure clapping for nurses, nice. But these people should have propper working conditions and wages, otherwise nobody will want to do the job. Covid just gave the realization that even if we face a global crisis where nurses are dying on the front, the rest of society is not willing to provide the bare minimum these people deserve.

Exactly this. The nursing profession has been accumulating empathetic debt for probably decades. By empathetic debt I mean nurses taking on more work and responsibility beyond personal rational choice because if they fall short then patients suffer. the truly tragic part of all of this is that as much as we would like to imagine these nurses confidently walking away from a bad situation like some sort of power move..…

I honestly have no clue how we fix this problem. Our healthcare costs are already out of control, COVID showed our systems can’t handle large numbers of patients, and we’re finally nearing the point where we get healthcare out there to all the people who need it.

Who’s going to care for all of them? Do we just make healthcare even more expensive, raise everyone’s pay, and hire a fuckload of new nurses? I’ve never heard of an RN being out of work for very long; I can’t imagine there’s a lot of well-trained RNs looking to be hired. Seems like we’ve backed ourselves into a corner we’re about to wall off.

Does anyone know how we fix this? I’m very interested in hearing ideas.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#999

Post by throwaway675309 »

kerbs wrote: post #837
screye wrote: post #749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I make $4-500k as a software engineer in the midwest This is a massive outlier though. In your case, the exception proves the rule. The rule: "The 1% of Nurses that found a partner in the US top 1 percentile will be able to quit their job."

OK fair, but let's say that making $250k as a senior/experienced software engineer these days is fairly middle of the road. It's still double . (I managed a team where post-Covid, 3 left to make >$500k, 2-4 round up the $3250-$425k range. It sure _feels_ average)

I feel like either you might be massively out of touch or this is a most not-so-subtle totally unverifiable flex ever.

I'm reminded of that episode of Arrested Development. "I mean it's just one banana Michael, how much could it possibly cost? $10?" "You've never actually set foot inside of a grocery store before, have you?"

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#1000

Post by hansel_der »

bshep wrote: post #939
hansel_der wrote: post #902

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we have no choice but to drop salaries or close up shop there's bound to be at least a third option and the fact that you ignored it is part of the problem.

There are no other source of income other than insurance plans, so if they decrease rates we have no choice but to decrease pay. Im not sure where you are getting the ‘you ignored it’ comment, when the new rates were announced we adjusted pay according to the decrease in rates.

you seem to imply that pay will go up the same moment rising rates are announced.
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