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Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

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Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#991

Post by coffeeisyummy »

denton-scratch wrote: post #703
coffeeisyummy wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Might need to consider sanctions with China as well... No chance in hell our elites will allow that. We've ignored the Uighurs, we ignored China antagonizing Taiwan, we've ignored China antagonizing the rest of the Asian-Pacific region, we've ignored China lying about COVID, we've ignored China stealing our technology, we've ignored China spying on US politicans. We've got corporations and universities bending over…

> We've ignored the Uighurs Who is this "we", that has a responsibility, nay duty , to protect the Uighurs from their own government? It sounds as if "we" must be the Global Police Force, an idea that I find rather frightening. Bad stuff is happening all over the world; it's been going on forever. It's bad, and we don't like it; but that doesn't mean we all have some kind of moral duty to go to war to try and make th…

That was sort of my point, though. The idea that our elites are now going to take a harder line on China for their involvement with Russia is laughable, given what they've turned a blind eye to in the past.

There's too much money on the table for them to risk angering China.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#992

Post by LoveMortuus »

VoodooJuJu wrote: post #668

What is the endgame here? Russia is outclassed by NATO both economically and militarily. If NATO intervenes economically, Russia will lose much. If NATO intervenes militarily, Russia will lose much (but at great cost to NATO). The risk of NATO intervention is high, right? Russia understood this before invading, right? So it seems Russia is accepting a high risk of loss. But it doesn't make sense that a nation as soph…

What Russia is doing is a defensive move. Russia wants to ensure the safety of its people, not to expand its land. Sadly the majority of all this disturbance is because of USA manipulations... It's not their first time (Vietnam, Iraq, Korea, ...) and I doubt it's the last time.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#994

Post by neop1x »

Zanneth wrote: post #975

Can anyone provide a non-biased explanation about why this is happening? Why is Russia carrying out this attack?

It appears that Putin is a psychopath. He said that Ukraine is run by narcomans and fashists (obviously a total nonsense) and that he fears NATO presence in nearby countries and he doesn't "feel" safe. He said that disintegration of the Soviet Union was biggest mistake in history and he would like it back. He violated earlier agreements and attacked Ukraine while giving fictional propaganda reasons. It started on the east, where higher concentration of pro-russion rebels lived. But despite not having real reasons he attacked Ukraine as a whole. After he lied that it was just an exercise and they won't start the attack. He is a mad terrorist and his brain processes can't easily be explained. Maybe he feared that Ukraine would join NATO and EU and that Russian people would see that ukrainians can live a better life and prosper more and didn't want this to happen. Or maybe he was mad about economic stagnation of Russia and their incompetence so he wanted to show the world that he still has power. Maybe this idiot wants to provoke world war III... Only he knows.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#995

Post by neop1x »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #174

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, it was looking for a little while like the West might make peace with Russia. In the post collapse of the Soviet Union, Billionaire Oligarchs emerged that controlled most of the business and finance while the Russian population was extremely poor. When the Russian judicial system went after a few of them, and specifically Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the US immediately started to sanc…

This is how their propaganda explains it. But in reality why on Earth would West want to attack Moscow?! What would West gain from that?! And just because of "his personal fears" he decided to invade an independent country. That's an is indefensible act of terrorism.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#996

Post by neop1x »

coryfklein wrote: post #851

Can anyone explain why Putin wants Ukraine so badly? Is it natural resources, geography, or simply a "the country must grow" mindset?

Maybe he fears that Ukraine would join EU, NATO and people there would live happier life than people in Russia. And maybe their russian state propaganda is not working as well as they would like in today's interconnected global world. Maybe he is sad that he is getting old. Only he really knows. But IMO he will lose more than gain from this invasion.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#997

Post by ohwellish »

tim333 wrote: post #941
ohwellish wrote: post #429

russian military never been in direct full scale fight with Ukrainian forces before till this morning, they have no idea where they got themselves into and what is coming to them - we will bury them all! every single one of them Our time to fight back has come - Glory to Ukraine! Слава Україні!!! update: dont get me wrong, true Russians are against this war, I have alot of friends in Russia and they ALL sending me me…

Yeah. Also the sides are kind of unbalanced in terms of weaponry.

if sides was balanced whole thing would be over in first few hours

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#998

Post by rkangel »

VoodooJuJu wrote: post #668

What is the endgame here? Russia is outclassed by NATO both economically and militarily. If NATO intervenes economically, Russia will lose much. If NATO intervenes militarily, Russia will lose much (but at great cost to NATO). The risk of NATO intervention is high, right? Russia understood this before invading, right? So it seems Russia is accepting a high risk of loss. But it doesn't make sense that a nation as soph…

> The risk of NATO intervention is high, right? Russia understood this before invading, right? So it seems Russia is accepting a high risk of loss.

I don't think they saw the risk as high. Crimea was their 'soft-launch' to test the waters and find out what would happen. Answer - not very much. Effectively they invaded and took over a country and everyone tut-tutted and did nothing about it. Given that, I'm assuming that they didn't think the international reaction would be as strong as it is.

Obviously they miscalculated, but if the whole thing had been over in 48 hours with little resistance would it have been as strong as it is now or would there have been an effective shoulder shrug like there was about Crimea? I don't think it would be the same, but I believe the conflict being dragged out has made the reaction worse (well done Ukraine).

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#999

Post by lostmsu »

ycombinete wrote: post #114

In his 1997 book The Grand Chessboard Zbigniew Brzezinski did say that if Europe went to war again it would start in Ukraine. Some choice quotes: “Ukraine, a new and important space on the Eurasian chessboard, is a geopolitical pivot because its very existence as an independent country helps to transform Russia. Without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be a Eurasian empire.” “However, if Moscow regains control over Ukraine,…

Even broken clock is right twice a day.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#1000

Post by CRConrad »

awb wrote: post #875
VoodooJuJu wrote: post #668

What is the endgame here? Russia is outclassed by NATO both economically and militarily. If NATO intervenes economically, Russia will lose much. If NATO intervenes militarily, Russia will lose much (but at great cost to NATO). The risk of NATO intervention is high, right? Russia understood this before invading, right? So it seems Russia is accepting a high risk of loss. But it doesn't make sense that a nation as soph…

This book lays out one endgame: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics The “Finlandization of Europe”. The idea is to use bribery and propaganda to destabilize Eastern Europe countries until puppet governments rise to power or can be installed, while holding Central Europe at bay through leverage on natural resources. Make deals with Germany and ignore the US and UK. Basically, take over Europe an…

> The “Finlandization of Europe”.

Even Finland itself came out of Finlandization beginning thirty-plus years ago, so it's doubly ironic that Putler at least partly succededed in bending much of the rest of Europe to something similar since. The main culprit in falling for this is, AFAICS, Germany; from about the Schröder administration and onwards.

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