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Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

blog.ethereum.org

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Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#991

Post by chmike »

leishman wrote: post #574

Proof of Stake is already how our current financial system works. The people with the most money make the decisions. Proof-of-Work is provably resistant to this, as evidenced by the 2017 blocksize debate where almost every large miner and bitcoin company wanted to change the protocol and it was fought off through grassroots efforts. A PoS currency will be controlled by a cabal of US financial institutions, and indire…

We have a bad experience with this PoS principle in France. It ended in a revolution.

The assumption that people with the most stakes will act in the interest of the community has been proven flawed in many occasions. They will act in their own interest first whatever it wight be. The weak logical link is that their own interest always coincide with the interest of the community.

If someone could explain me how this assumption will always be true, I would be very happy.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#992

Post by gverrilla »

tphyahoo2 wrote: post #122
zepto wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ETH is competing against USD, not against BTC. Bitcoin is competing against gold. If true, this means that every argument comparing BTC to fiat is bullshit. Given that most arguments I see in favor of BTC compare it to fiat, this doesn’t speak well to the understanding of those who hold it. Given that BTC’s value is predicated purely on the beliefs of those who hold it, a systematic misunderstanding like this sugge…

https://web.archive.org/web/20210116135412/https://taaalk.co... Bitcoin will be fine.

this is pretty good comedy I recommend everyone to read and enjoy some good laughters

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#993

Post by paul_f »

fredfoobar wrote: post #894
Matthias1 wrote: post #890

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without mining, less electricity is used in mining, and less silicon is used in mining chips. Are these resources available for extra production? Yes. However, these “non-wasted” resources are offset by other resources which are “wasted”. This would seem to be the main argument of that second article you posted summarizing the economics around PoS. The idea is that if you’re backing your crypto with itself (like in…

Electricity is the best form of energy to use as the basis for Proof of Work, because there is no pre-requisite on how to generate the required electricity. compare: electric cars vs ice cars, electric cars can also end up consuming "dirty" electricity from coal fired plants, but that's an option vs. ice cars.

I translate PoW as Proof of Waste.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#994

Post by eloff »

tlamponi wrote: post #941
xtracto wrote: post #938

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. And paxos is not the best algorithm at it. There is Raft which is an alternative that is easier to understand.

Best in what metric? raft and paxos are basically the same, besides leader election, which raft's take makes it simply easier and possible even more efficient[0]. I say "possible" because that depends very much on the consensus state over time, which in most actual workloads can be pretty stable, so at least in some practice, e.g., with hypervisor-cluster like we do, they perform almost the same. The simpler approach…

I gather OP means best because it's understandable and easier to implement. Paxos has a tough reputation and even Google fucked it up in the beginning according to their Chubby distributed lock paper.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#995

Post by fredfoobar »

paul_f wrote: post #993
fredfoobar wrote: post #894

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electricity is the best form of energy to use as the basis for Proof of Work, because there is no pre-requisite on how to generate the required electricity. compare: electric cars vs ice cars, electric cars can also end up consuming "dirty" electricity from coal fired plants, but that's an option vs. ice cars.

I translate PoW as Proof of Waste.

This is a great comment paul_f, keep it up. You're adding a lot of value on HN.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#996

Post by boublepop »

moralestapia wrote: post #936
programmarchy wrote: post #929

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Creating a fork is not a fraud. That was and is always a possibility, people were free to disagree, and Ethereum Classic represents that disagreement. If you went through that, then you would have ETH and ETC, and a choice of what to use, develop, mine, etc.

If I had created the DAO and I was the one going to lose 50 million, no fork would have happened, and Buterin (and you probably) would have told me, from their high horses, "though luck pal, you see, that's the beauty of smart contracts, they're final and no one should be able to do anything about it". If you preach a set of principles and then backtrack on them when it's convenient for you, you're a hypocrite and ha…

If you had been the creator there would still be absolutely nothing you could do to prevent a fork. You could throw a hissyfit and scream all you want on Twitter, but the fork would still happen.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#997

Post by ddrdrck_ »

I did not read through every posts but I have seen a lot of ignorant comments regarding PoS and dPoS. Also I am very surprised that Tendermint (dPoS consensus), Cosmos (decentralized network using Tendermint) and Cosmos SDK (used by many projects, e.g. BNB) do not seem to be mentioned anywhere. I would suggest anyone interested in this topic to have a look at it.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#998

Post by Black101 »

Dang keeps saying that he doesn't like obvious comments but he keeps posting comments like this: https://i.imgur.com/jdNHIy0.png ... and pagination has been an issue for a long time.... not sure what it brings.

Just search for "(Posts like this will go away once we turn off pagination.)" is you want to find other occurrences.

Just put the pagination link at the top too if you think that it is an issue instead of sticking your post to the top every time pagination is used? Or just fix the website... how expensive can it be to display 1000 comments with no images.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#999

Post by grubles »

vbuterin wrote: post #875
grubles wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Important to note that Vitalik massively gains from Ethereum transitioning to Proof-of-Stake since he controls a large percentage of total ETH due to premining it before the project launched.

Isn't this just saying "the Ethereum proof of stake transition benefits ETH holders"?

Wouldn't it benefit you much much more because, well, you premined a billion dollars worth of ETH for yourself and designed Ethereum to benefit wealthy people?

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#1000

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

SwagtimusPrime wrote: post #824
witweb wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please read up on UASF and Bitcoin. People can buy tons of mining factories, but if a very large amount of nodes start rejecting blocks and therefore the rewards, miners start to rethink their stance very fast. There is no discussion here, history proves it.

and UASF are a thing in PoS as well, if some entity/entities acquire a majority of the staked coins users can simply fork the malicious actors out. It's functionally equivalent except that it's an order of magnitude more expensive to acquire the required coins as opposed to getting the equivalent in hashpower.

UASF is just "Proof of Subreddit Moderation".
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