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“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

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Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#991

Post by tweetle_beetle »

vp8989 wrote: post #961
tweetle_beetle wrote: post #932

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're right, but I also think that in reality it is very difficult to draw a line between personal political discussions and company policy decisions in the modern world. Yes it's always boring when someone in the workplace makes bold political statements that no one asked for, but what happens when the company you work for outsources jobs abroad, is making questionable HR decisions, etc. I'm not sure it's r…

"I'm not sure it's right to say that any discussion about anything political is banned when a company policy that affects an employee can be political in nature." Why do you think that's the policy? Did you read the blog posts? According to DHH's post, political discussion that is related to the business is allowed. Any other political discussion is encouraged but must take place in a dedicated non-work channel. The…

https://world.hey.com/dhh/basecamp-s-new-etiquette-regarding...

> Therefore, we’re asking everyone, including Jason and me, to refrain from using our company Basecamp or HEY to discuss societal politics at work effective immediately.

> This includes everything from sharing political stories in campfire, using message threads to elucidate others on political beliefs that go beyond the topic directly, or performing political advocacy in general.

> ...

> Note that we will continue to engage in politics that directly relate to our business or products.

Not so interested in nitpicking about whether banning is semantically correct - I think you know what I meant.

What's more interesting is the awkward situation they have created, which I'd argue is a false dichotomy - where does "societal politics" end and "politics that directly relate to our business or products" start?

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#992

Post by prepend »

jollybean wrote: post #296
koheripbal wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our experience when we issued our "No Politics / No Religion" policy at work was very positive. The few people who had an issue with it, subsequently quit or were terminated, and many of their co-workers actually thanked us afterwards for it. We didn't have to pay them to leave. One tried to use the company social media accounts to advance her politics, so we fired her, and the other person became frustrated that she…

"The way to keep politics out of work is to keep your work environment professional." Both yours and the OP are side-stepping the main issue which is 'Identity Politics' -> it cannot be avoided. It's 'very easy' frankly, to avoid 'Politics and Religion' at the office, frankly, it's normal. Also fairly easy to avoid 'abortion and gun control'. But - 'the companies position on BLM' for example, is something that basica…

> not allow employees to submit invoices for meat

Companies that make you submit receipts for food are negative in my view and affect whether I want to work there. Simply set a per diem for food and leave it there. Trying to examine receipts for meat or not meat (or alcohol or salt or whatever) reflects a non-flexible mentality and likely makes other aspects of a company unpleasant and ineffective.

WeWork seemed batshit crazy this seems like one of the many signs of a dumb leadership style.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#993

Post by ugh123 »

andkon wrote: post #262
ipaddr wrote: post #152

Interestingly the employees who left have the best career prospects. Entire iOS team, head of marketing and head of product team. The 6 months free money is hard for anyone entering a strong job market to pass up. A lot of comments seem to think 1/3 left because of the no politics policy. 1 / 3 left because it would increase their wealth or give them the summer covid took away last year. How many people would leave y…

One of their iOS devs who left has been incredibly vocal about how he no longer felt like this was somewhere he could work because of this policy and its effects, so I think you're plainly wrong (or insisting that there's no way we could take a person at their word). https://twitter.com/georgeclaghorn It's a lot more likely that the 1/3rd that left both left because they were unhappy with the policy, and because they…

I'm reading through his tweets and don't see much interesting on the subject. I may have missed it tho. Can you point me to a thread where hes vocal on it?

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#994

Post by ugh123 »

madeofpalk wrote: post #493
andkon wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of their iOS devs who left has been incredibly vocal about how he no longer felt like this was somewhere he could work because of this policy and its effects, so I think you're plainly wrong (or insisting that there's no way we could take a person at their word). https://twitter.com/georgeclaghorn It's a lot more likely that the 1/3rd that left both left because they were unhappy with the policy, and because they…

A number of their employees were very vocal from the moment the post went live. They expressed how disappointed they are. You can literally hear the despair in two employees voice in a 90s podcast episode where they announce its hiatus. Basecamp was a company built on reputation, and people joined on that and then the leaders just flushed that all away. Its not surprising that opinionated and outspoken people - the k…

How was Basecamp's reputation built on social justice issues and fanning flames on internal message boards? I thought their rep was based on good product development

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#995

Post by predaking »

waheoo wrote: post #951
ipaddr wrote: post #152

Interestingly the employees who left have the best career prospects. Entire iOS team, head of marketing and head of product team. The 6 months free money is hard for anyone entering a strong job market to pass up. A lot of comments seem to think 1/3 left because of the no politics policy. 1 / 3 left because it would increase their wealth or give them the summer covid took away last year. How many people would leave y…

I wouldn't be so sure, we're enacting a no hire rule on Basecamp employees over this. Too much of a liability.

You're enacting a no hire rule for 30 people specifically?

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#996

Post by jvdizzle »

spyckie2 wrote: post #642
ipaddr wrote: post #152

Interestingly the employees who left have the best career prospects. Entire iOS team, head of marketing and head of product team. The 6 months free money is hard for anyone entering a strong job market to pass up. A lot of comments seem to think 1/3 left because of the no politics policy. 1 / 3 left because it would increase their wealth or give them the summer covid took away last year. How many people would leave y…

Yes, people are reacting to the policy. But it's definitely that the policy is a reaction to something as well. Probably, the founders believed that the toxicity of the internal culture had reached a point where it was extremely detrimental to the workplace. And, knowing DHH, it was probably not only a financial decision but a lifestyle one. He may have realized that the advocates that actively discussed and promoted…

So, what? Hire new people to replace the ones that left and then eventually have to do a purge again in 5 years? This appears more to me like a short-sighted easy-way-out kind of move.

Why not spend the time to build channels for constructive political discussion? The workplace does not exist in a vacuum. You cannot isolate work from politics these days.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#997

Post by spyckie2 »

jvdizzle wrote: post #996
spyckie2 wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, people are reacting to the policy. But it's definitely that the policy is a reaction to something as well. Probably, the founders believed that the toxicity of the internal culture had reached a point where it was extremely detrimental to the workplace. And, knowing DHH, it was probably not only a financial decision but a lifestyle one. He may have realized that the advocates that actively discussed and promoted…

So, what? Hire new people to replace the ones that left and then eventually have to do a purge again in 5 years? This appears more to me like a short-sighted easy-way-out kind of move. Why not spend the time to build channels for constructive political discussion? The workplace does not exist in a vacuum. You cannot isolate work from politics these days.

The policy they put in place is just not hiring those who would want to actively participate in political discussion at work. I think there are plenty of people in the world who see that as a net positive. Not everyone wants political discussion and to further mankind’s ideological philosophies; far more direct ways to impact society include just being nice to those around you.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#998

Post by randomsearch »

predaking wrote: post #845
randomsearch wrote: post #832

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I noticed this too, but I couldn't imagine what dhh could post about this that wouldn't add fuel to the fire and enrage some more people. What would you post if you were dhh?

So to preface this response a bit...I don't know that for me as a leader, it should or would be about adding fuel to the fire or enraging more people; if I'm DHH, it's not the feelings of Twitter that I'm concerned with today*, it's the feelings of the people who have left my company. My top answer here would be "nothing". =) Several hours after 1/3rd of your workforce leaves isn't the time to start going after Apple…

You've convinced me, I agree that they should have said nothing.

Don't think there's anything they could have posted that would have made it better. Does feel disrespectful that they didn't just refrain from posting for a day or two.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#999

Post by Oddskar »

antihero wrote: post #844
andkon wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of their iOS devs who left has been incredibly vocal about how he no longer felt like this was somewhere he could work because of this policy and its effects, so I think you're plainly wrong (or insisting that there's no way we could take a person at their word). https://twitter.com/georgeclaghorn It's a lot more likely that the 1/3rd that left both left because they were unhappy with the policy, and because they…

> a new job hunt takes 3 Where is this? At Senior level in London it can take days once you're good and ready.

You would magically find a suitable job in days?

I personally have a lot higher requirements for a new position than "a job that pays more than my current one". E.g. working on something that is worth doing, together with great people.

This takes a lot longer than "days" to find.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#1000

Post by maire »

version_five wrote: post #79

Putting aside the other aspects of this story, I think a buyout offer, possibly even a "standing offer" is an interesting practice to consider at companies. I worked somewhere where there was a large, low morale group of employees that I think were just there because of money concerns + fomo if the company ever went anywhere. At the time I thought a buyout offer would have been a great way to separate the people who…

I looked through the information and it looks a lot like what we used to call "Voluntary Reduction in Force (VRIF)" AKA a "voluntary" layoff. It includes 6 months pay which seems sweet. Am I missing something?

We used to have these when I worked at Xerox. The only question I have is did everyone get the VRIF or just some people?

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