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EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

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Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#991

Post by JAlexoid »

bepotts wrote: post #348
jonathanstrange wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This continent is a mess in terms of IT, with a few exceptions (London, Berlin, Dublin, some spots in Eastern Europe). So... pretty much like the US (with a few exceptions like Silicon Valley or Austin, Tx)?

I honestly don't understand why people keep comparing the culture of American cities and states to European ones. America is one giant country - the EU isn't. The cultural differences between Detroit and, say, San Francisco is miniscule compared to differences between London and Berlin. Not every city in America is San Francisco, Seattle, or Austin, but neither one state nor one city is as technologically dysfunction…

Actually... San Francisco and the peninsula is as different compared to Michigan/Detroit as London and Berlin.

Honestly - Have you lived in all of them, like me?

> city is as technologically dysfunctional as their European counterparts.

You mean.... Like Estonia that is 100% covered by LTE, while RI has dead zones? Or the fact that FinTech startup funding is highest in London?

Geez!!! I didn't think that nationalist ignoramuses have spread to HN.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#992

Post by krn »

sputr wrote: post #903
krn wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The entire point of art. 11 is to transfer money from Google News (and other aggregators, like Facebook) to publishers. The latest version of Google News has already solved this: it only shows the title and the image, not a single sentence from the article itself, – which was the main concern in Spain and Germany when the relevant laws were introduced. Facebook and Twitter shouldn't face any issues as well, because…

Only the URL is not covered under art. 11, everything else is.

If a publisher implements the Open Graph protocol[1], it explicitly makes the meta data of the article available to others.

[1] http://ogp.me/

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#993

Post by caf »

JAlexoid wrote: post #987
caf wrote: post #802

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ends up being effectively a tariff, though - if fewer advertising platforms can take European customers, then that allows those platforms to raise their prices for those customers, essentially meaning that European businesses end up paying more for advertising than their competitors from elsewhere.

Nothing will happen. You know that Google does second price auctions on AdWords, right? Google literally doesn't control the price of ads Even if you pay Google €0.01 per click, you still can get an impression under certain conditions.

It's not about controlling the price, the effect works at least as well in auction conditions.

If the European ad-buyers are funnelled into a subset of ad auctions, the average prices in those auctions should be higher.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#994

Post by _Tev »

JAlexoid wrote: post #988
tomelders wrote: post #913

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any country that legislates against free speech ans freedom of expression with such a brutal and blunt law such as this should be considered a failed experiment.

What? Taking my copyrighted work and publishing it is somehow a matter of freedom of speech and expression? Do you also consider vandalism a form of freedom of expression?

Stop pretending this is only about "publishing copyrighted works"

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#995

Post by adynatos »

zaarn wrote: post #523
dmix wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> German courts at least agree that for such things This implies that you are going to have to go to court because you got an email at 1am and didn't reply right away...in order to fight off potentially serious fines. Whether it's accurate or not it's still very expensive to prove it's inaccuracy (in time alone, not including financially and stress). This has very serious consequences for small and even medium busine…

>This implies that you are going to have to go to court No it doesn't, it means that if you get dragged to court because you got the email at 1AM and you were asleep, then you're not guilty of anything. No judge will put up a fine for that.

are you seriously arguing for having to interact with the justice system for not responding to an email within an hour as anything but totally wrong? jesus christ, where am i?

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#996

Post by zaarn »

adynatos wrote: post #995
zaarn wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This implies that you are going to have to go to court No it doesn't, it means that if you get dragged to court because you got the email at 1AM and you were asleep, then you're not guilty of anything. No judge will put up a fine for that.

are you seriously arguing for having to interact with the justice system for not responding to an email within an hour as anything but totally wrong? jesus christ, where am i?

No I'm not and I think I've made that fairly clear in this thread.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#997

Post by SZJX »

int_19h wrote: post #837
mcv wrote: post #817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the same way as in the US, and I don't think campaign contributions are a thing, at least not at the same level as in the US. But there are many, many lobbyists active in the EU, and some of them have a surprising amount of influence over politicians. There has even been a case where two different parties, independently from each other, introduced the exact same bill, which had been written by a lobbyist.

What leverage do they use for lobbying, if campaign contributions are off the tables?

The politicians are still very well connected with the industry. For example there was somebody who retired from the EU Commission a while ago and immediately went to the board of a company or something. The same shit as in the US just a bit less extreme.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#998

Post by SZJX »

nkassis wrote: post #967
lovich wrote: post #935

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah the old, let's imply your racist/afraid so you let american companies do as they please argument. It's easy to be trite, but it doesn't change the fact that foreign companies and governments were taking advantage of the EU while simultaneously having a different set of rules at home for EU companies. I think the EU overreacted her, hut it's hardly surprising that they had some sort of response

The whole thread should be about the EU response and how negative it will be for most EU citizens but have less of an impact on the intended targets, aka large corporations who can afford to be compliant. I think arguing over who has the most censored internet or the worst corporations is probably starting to veer off topic.

I think the point here is to understand why such a response occurred. So it's very much on topic. Nobody is denying that this is generally a bad thing for the commoners. But when you put it into perspective, what the US and China have been doing are also very bad. So this is nothing out of the ordinary really.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#999

Post by SZJX »

int_19h wrote: post #839
lovich wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see part of your argument, but the internet in the US is by no means full of free speech and fair use. The government has their hands on every major service provider and ISP and has used their power to compel companies to give information or censor data. What's happening here is the EU is seeing every other major power lock down their internet, so why would they leave theirs open which would also allow foreign medd…

US has a huge surveillance (both govt and private) problem, but censorship? Can you give some examples?

Simple: Are you able to find any ISIS-supporting website out in the open? What is the fundamental difference between this and the Chinese internet censorship for the sake of national security? I see only total hypocrisy and double standards here. Just admit that every country has their own set of laws regulating the internet and that the US is no different. Or are people so institutionalized that they don't even realize the countless censoring going on around the place?

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#1000

Post by SZJX »

bcheung wrote: post #778
linuxftw wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do these politicians really not understand the awful implications of these filtering systems for free speech and fair use? They believe what their wealthy donors tell them to believe. It won't affect the well connected politicians in any measurable way, they'll still be wealthy. Meanwhile, independent organizations will suffer while the big players get all the sweet licensing deals. Regulations are ALWAYS about pun…

It's also a form of control. "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

Such an unrelated libertarian quote that gets blindly posted and blindly upvoted. The EU is having a problem with the US companies running the show over their internet space. They don't intend to lock ordinary people up with this law. So you think it' be better for the companies to hold unlimited power and control people? That'd be much worse than moderate and sensible government regulations.
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