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Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

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Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#991

Post by jernfrost »

Symbiote wrote: post #827
jernfrost wrote: post #812

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange, I have the complete reverse experience. Mac is by far the best. Windows is worst. I use Linux at work daily but miss my mac. It is much more unstable and unpolished. The app selection is really weak and the integration between gui and console is weak although better than on windows. Windows is an utter mess these days as Microsoft is jumping between so many different UI paradigms.

Can you give examples of the GUI and CLI integration? I have a mac, but mostly use a Linux desktop, so I don't know what I'm missing.

Drag and drop almost anything into the CLI produce a sensible result. Open command works as if you double clicked the item in Finder, which means it can be used to open directories, launch a program associated with that file etc.

In addition because mac use commad+C, command+V for copy paste rather than ctrl+C and ctrl+V as Linux and Windows, you feel no different working from a CLI than from any other app. You don't have to mentally jump in and out of two different ways of working.

This extends all the way into GUI apps. Typical CLI commands keys work in all mac GUI apps. I can use readline keys such as ctrl+a, ctrl+e for moving the cursor e.g. Works even in office apps like Keynote and Pages.

It is very frustrating to not be able to use these Unix conventions on Linux!!

There are lots of little things like this which makes a superior experience IMHO.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#992

Post by jernfrost »

SiVal wrote: post #846
Synaesthesia wrote: post #824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Mac environment takes some getting used to, it took me years to learn all the little details, like if you select a bunch of folders and double-click, it will open all of them. To close them all, option-click the close button. I do find Finder to be inferior to explorer in almost every way. That tree pane on the left is too useful.

I'm far more of a Mac user, but I use Windows, too, and I agree that the Finder is quite inferior to Win Explorer. The simplest, most obvious things, such as having 2 side-by-side trees for file organization, or right-click on anything and create a new folder there--things that are easy and obvious--are NEVER going to come to Finder, which occasionally adds trivial eye candy such as "album flow" views or colored "tag…

Sounds more like you are not familiar enough with using a Mac. Putting two finder windows next to each other is easy, and so is quickly creating a directory.

Finder also supports tree view you know. OTOH does windows have as good filtering tools, smart folders, labels etc?

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#993

Post by Symbiote »

jernfrost wrote: post #991
Symbiote wrote: post #827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give examples of the GUI and CLI integration? I have a mac, but mostly use a Linux desktop, so I don't know what I'm missing.

Drag and drop almost anything into the CLI produce a sensible result. Open command works as if you double clicked the item in Finder, which means it can be used to open directories, launch a program associated with that file etc. In addition because mac use commad+C, command+V for copy paste rather than ctrl+C and ctrl+V as Linux and Windows, you feel no different working from a CLI than from any other app. You don't…

I only use KDE, so I can't comment on Gnome etc.

Dragging a file into Konsole (KDE's terminal) gives a menu with the options "Copy here", "Link here" and "Paste location". Seems reasonable.

Dragging a hyperlink or image from Chromium gave the same options. "Copy" downloaded the file, although set a timestamp in 2106 for some reason. This doesn't work from Firefox.

Dragging selected text pastes it in.

"see ." opens the current directory in the file browser thing, "see thing.odt" opens LibreOffice, "see my.pdf", etc. "see http://example.org" doesn't work, although I can right-click the link to open it. (Naturally, "alias open=see" if you prefer that word.)

I set a custom shortcut for Konsole for "Super+C" etc (Windows/Cmd key), but I don't use it very often. I mostly select + middle click to paste, which is a Unix convention I miss on a Mac! The readline keys are nice, they seem to work about 80% of the time on a Mac, and I haven't found a way to get that working in Linux.

My "lots of little things" favours KDE. Properly maximizing a window, having a "keep above" button for any window, focus-follows-mouse, and the general feeling that the computer does what I ask in a boring way, not what it thinks I want in a stylish way.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#994

Post by squiggleblaz »

mmcconnell1618 wrote: post #393
bhouston wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adobe has a lot of stuff that works well on iOS. ARM has neon instructions for SIMD. I think they will be okay. Changing over from one SIMD architecture to another is not that hard. AutoCAD isn't ultra optimized for Mac anyhow, it will be okay. This transition may screw up or significantly slow down VMs of Intel-based OSes like Ubuntu.

I think developers flocked to Intel Macs because it gave them one machine that could run Mac, Linux, Windows in virtual or bootcamp environments. If x86 compatibility goes away, developers may jump ship to Linux or Windows machines.

I used to have a PPC G5 iMac running Linux. It was fine; hitched me onto the Linux-on-Mac train for more than a decade once I finally ditched Mac OS X. And Linux already works nicely on ARM - it's the most common deployment.

This may be a terrible outcome for multi-OS users, but it's not guaranteed.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#995

Post by LatencyKills »

sreque wrote: post #433
mark_l_watson wrote: post #229

This might just be a bargaining move on Apple’s part, but I don’t think so. I think that long term they are much better off controlling their entire hardware stack. I wouldn’t be surprised to even see them make their own display screens. As an Apple customer, I like this idea also. For 20 years, I used to be a desktop Linux fanatic and later became a fan of Android. In the last few years, I have switched to using all…

I am a software developer, and I detest working on my mac laptop. At $lastjob I had a Linux desktop and it is, I believe, the most productive environment I have ever developed in. The job before, I had a windows desktop, and I prefer that to mac. You say you want to just "get things done expediently," but in my experience apple software is flat out inferior and OSX is the worst of the 3 major operating systems I have…

I'm a software developer too. I've held senior engineering roles at Microsoft, Apple, and Intel (in that order). I grew up loving Windows but soon after getting really deep into development that love vanished.

Anything I do today (everything from Intel microcode, x86 assembly to C/C++) happens on macOS simply because I can do every single thing I need to in one place. Most devs I bump into that really hate macOS have no idea it is really just (open source) BSD with Apple's oddly unique visual facade. There is literally nothing I can't do on my Mac even during the times I run Visual Studio, VTune, etc. I also find it amusing when devs tell me that macOS isn't as customizable as Windows. Sure... sure... ;-)

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#996

Post by jitbit »

LatencyKills wrote: post #995
sreque wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a software developer, and I detest working on my mac laptop. At $lastjob I had a Linux desktop and it is, I believe, the most productive environment I have ever developed in. The job before, I had a windows desktop, and I prefer that to mac. You say you want to just "get things done expediently," but in my experience apple software is flat out inferior and OSX is the worst of the 3 major operating systems I have…

I'm a software developer too. I've held senior engineering roles at Microsoft, Apple, and Intel (in that order). I grew up loving Windows but soon after getting really deep into development that love vanished. Anything I do today (everything from Intel microcode, x86 assembly to C/C++) happens on macOS simply because I can do every single thing I need to in one place. Most devs I bump into that really hate macOS have…

That's the question. Will you be able to continue developing for non-Apple CPU on a Mac??? That's not what Apple wants.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#997

Post by LatencyKills »

sreque wrote: post #433
mark_l_watson wrote: post #229

This might just be a bargaining move on Apple’s part, but I don’t think so. I think that long term they are much better off controlling their entire hardware stack. I wouldn’t be surprised to even see them make their own display screens. As an Apple customer, I like this idea also. For 20 years, I used to be a desktop Linux fanatic and later became a fan of Android. In the last few years, I have switched to using all…

I am a software developer, and I detest working on my mac laptop. At $lastjob I had a Linux desktop and it is, I believe, the most productive environment I have ever developed in. The job before, I had a windows desktop, and I prefer that to mac. You say you want to just "get things done expediently," but in my experience apple software is flat out inferior and OSX is the worst of the 3 major operating systems I have…

https://stratechery.com/2018/the-end-of-windows/

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#999

Post by nunez »

mcny wrote: post #817
nunez wrote: post #807

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't trust that for two reasons: 1) There is a lot of cargo-culting around the MacBook because hurr durr Windows is terribad (though, to be fair, Docker does work better natively with OS X than Windows, even under WSL), and 2) Most companies give their developers the choice of a MacBook or the shittiest Windows machines known to man (because of irresistable volume deals from Windows OEMs). I bet the spread would b…

Satisfaction rate among surface owners is abysmal. At this point, I'd call the surface brand a failed experiment.

Do you have stats for that? Maybe I'm an outlier, but I loved the Surface Pro so much, I bought a Surface Book for work and a Surface Book 2 for personal use.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#1000

Post by nunez »

romanovcode wrote: post #887
nunez wrote: post #807

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't trust that for two reasons: 1) There is a lot of cargo-culting around the MacBook because hurr durr Windows is terribad (though, to be fair, Docker does work better natively with OS X than Windows, even under WSL), and 2) Most companies give their developers the choice of a MacBook or the shittiest Windows machines known to man (because of irresistable volume deals from Windows OEMs). I bet the spread would b…

Docker has a native Windows client for like a year now. Just FYI

Yes, it does, if you're on Windows 10. And volume mounting from within WSL doesn't work with POSIX paths (at least it didn't when I used it last over six months ago) regardless of the container engine type you select (HyperV or Windows Native Containers, which has its own quirks).

Docker for Windows doesn't exist for Windows 7 (still used in a number of enterprise environments). You're stuck with Docker-Machine in that case.

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