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Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

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Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#991
post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why exactly am I meant to be comforted by the fact that the craven opportunists --- the lowest of the low of the Republican party, discredited outsiders like Newt Gingrich and John Bolton --- are getting the most important positions in the United States government for kowtowing to Trump? There are important thinkers in the Republican Party. People with ideas and a moral core, people who have given years of service to…

> Why exactly am I meant to be comforted by the fact that the craven opportunists --- the lowest of the low of the Republican party [...] are getting the most important positions in the United States government for kowtowing to Trump? Twenty-three days ago you and Marco sought to get Peter Thiel removed from YC for his support of Trump[1]. This is to say you were explicitly working to ensure that respectable people w…

Holy fucking shit.

Thanks for pointing that out.

That whole thread highlights to an extreme degree how broken politics is in the U.S.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#993

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there's a serious question here. I'm sorry if you don't feel like I'm engaging your argument; it may genuinely be thoughtful but just comes across as intentionally ignorant. EDIT: I'm going to engage with this even though the premise of the request bothers me significantly. Here is Trump announcing his candidacy, declaring Mexican immigrants rapists and drug dealers (but it's okay, he's sure there are s…

>the premise of the request bothers me Is that the premise that you can't trust the judgement of a stranger? Since in this case that stranger I'd is you, maybe that's why it bothers you? Trump declared that Mexican immigrants were not screened to remove rapists. Trump didn't advocate sexual assault. These are known examples to me, so what "deeper" muck are you referring to? The fact that you feel so confident about t…

"Trump didn't advocate sexual assault."

The exact quote is "You can do anything. Grab 'em by the pussy."

This is a description of sexual assault. I'm really saddened by how many Americans are so deep in rape culture that they cannot see that.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#994
post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is what I said 25 days ago: > I think Thiel is hedging for both himself and as a proxy for Facebook. If Trump wins, Facebook gets the most favored corporation status currently awarded to Google. If Trump loses, Thiel perhaps assumes everyone will forget soon enough and Zuckerberg can diss-avow any Facebook connection. In retrospect, the one thing I think I was wrong about were the odds. I thought it was a long s…

I am no fan of the Clintons. Personally, during my lifetime, Obama is the only president I halfway respected, with his stance on state surveillance being a notable exception. I think there is a small amount of corruption with Hillary, as I believe is true of most politicians. However, given a choice between Hillary and Trump, for me it's no contest. Don't get me wrong, I think Trump has the potential to do some good.…

> You can bet that soon the official language/religion of the US will be English and Christianity respectively.

Not a goddamn chance. There's absolutely no way this could possibly change. This is one of those sacred American things, written into the framework of the entire country. Even if a small minority of people are for it, it would NEVER pass.

Yeah, you could say "Well, people were saying the same thing about a Trump presidency a few weeks ago, and here we are." I get that strange things are happening, but Trump was elected via the American process, so it's not like all the rules are falling apart.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#995
post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't understand is that you're telling us how you feel bullied by the libs using generalities, and in doing that you're labeling me a "lib" and doing so in a way that comes across as talking down to me. I'm not defending the behavior of Democratic Party supporters, but can you recognize the hypocrisy in your behavior just now?

Racist is an attribute of a group. Libs is the name of a group. I think its different. I am not using libs as a derogatory term. Liberals vs conservatives. Left vs right. I think the division is pretty clear. I absolutely don't mean to come across talking down to you :)

On the internet, without body language, it's hard to read tone of delivery. Thanks for the note back, and cool :-)

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#996

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how much the right complained about Clinton's "pay to play." http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/videos/2016-11-03/trump-bl... We've seen this during his entire campaign. Anything he attacked Clinton for came up as something he was guilty of.

It's not exactly like he's the King of Morocco, and besides, he also campaigned for Trump. It's not surprising he'd be on the transition team or give 1M to the campaign. I mean, that's the approximate value of 3 Hillary Clinton speeches. Peanuts!

It's true, I'm not saying Clinton is innocent of this either: it's politics in general.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#997

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theil is very interesting from a Marxist point of view. https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio... A few summary points: - Did a BA in philosophy at Stanford--an analytic department--in the late 80s. - As Reaganism was reaching its apex, he became a libertarian. - The 90s were a period of pessimism. As the Reagan revolution was in retreat, and as conservatives retreated with it, the "smartest" li…

I think you overestimate the significance of random asshats with some 80s BA in philosophy from Stanford. He somehow came to decent amounts of money, that's about all there is to say about Thiel's intellectual achievements. Nothing against the fact that an ordinary businessman's can have various more or less well-argued world views, but comparing him to Rousseau or Lenin is, frankly speaking, ridiculous.

I agree he is of minor significance compared to Rousseau or Lenin. I mentioned those two in particular because it's not often recognized how Lenin consciously thought of himself as fulfilling the French Revolution as a Rousseauian. Theil's American libertarianism is also indebted to that tradition in a particular way. The ideological kinship is worth pointing out because it's somewhat provocative and unexpected.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#998

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theil is very interesting from a Marxist point of view. https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio... A few summary points: - Did a BA in philosophy at Stanford--an analytic department--in the late 80s. - As Reaganism was reaching its apex, he became a libertarian. - The 90s were a period of pessimism. As the Reagan revolution was in retreat, and as conservatives retreated with it, the "smartest" li…

Appreciate your analysis defgeneric, though we probably don't see eye to eye. In my view what you're calling Thiel's anti-political phrases are important. I know you see them as the spread of virus-capitalism, but I think without that kind of frontier building the world would be a much more boring place. I take it you're familiar with Patri Friedman's thesis. What did you think then of Balaji Srinivasan's Exit Ycombi…

I don't really see the spread of capitalism as a virus, and indeed none of the founding Marxists did either. While capital's inherent drive to expand is the core of most imperialist theories (and therefore "bad"), the accompanying spread of bourgeois ideology to the entire globe--and with it the social integration of the whole of humanity on scale which was previously unimaginable--is unquestionably a good thing.

So Theil's anti-political phases are interesting to me as a demonstration of how ideology and capital condition each other.

On Silicon Valley, the anti-political technocratic ideology it seems to be producing is a minor phenomenon. There may be something to the notion of bits vs. atoms as the "stuff" of production, but what gets obscured is that capital and the law of value rules here nonetheless.

On Girard, Theil's affinity with those ideas seems to me to be bound up with his struggle to reconcile his libertarianism with Christianity. My guess is that if he dropped the Christianity, the Girardian thought would fall away.

My main point is that Theil is a particularly good "personification of capital" and that if you drop the stupid anti-capitalist politics and see capital as neither good nor bad but simply the ruling principle of the world, then it can explain a lot.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#999

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appreciate your analysis defgeneric, though we probably don't see eye to eye. In my view what you're calling Thiel's anti-political phrases are important. I know you see them as the spread of virus-capitalism, but I think without that kind of frontier building the world would be a much more boring place. I take it you're familiar with Patri Friedman's thesis. What did you think then of Balaji Srinivasan's Exit Ycombi…

I don't really see the spread of capitalism as a virus, and indeed none of the founding Marxists did either. While capital's inherent drive to expand is the core of most imperialist theories (and therefore "bad"), the accompanying spread of bourgeois ideology to the entire globe--and with it the social integration of the whole of humanity on scale which was previously unimaginable--is unquestionably a good thing. So…

> I don't really see the spread of capitalism as a virus, and indeed none of the founding Marxists did either. While capital's inherent drive to expand is the core of most imperialist theories (and therefore "bad"), the accompanying spread of bourgeois ideology to the entire globe--and with it the social integration of the whole of humanity on scale which was previously unimaginable--is unquestionably a good thing.

Interesting. I wasn't expecting that. I'm sure you're familiar with self described communists who identify with Agent Smith's description of humankind in the Matrix, so you know where I got that impression from.

> On Silicon Valley, the anti-political technocratic ideology it seems to be producing is a minor phenomenon. There may be something to the notion of bits vs. atoms as the "stuff" of production, but what gets obscured is that capital and the law of value rules here nonetheless.

We may mean different things by anti-political. I didn't see Thiel's exploration of unusual fringe ideas as being the complete rejection of all politics, but an attempt at making a new kind of politics through technology. So here anti-political meant 'outside of the mainstream' for me. Out of the world of Washington, not out of the broader world of political philosophy.

Along the same lines I think SV ultimately is competing with Washington. An old form of politics vs a new form, similar to the competition of monarchy and democracy.

I think it is in a nascent stage yet, I just think we're being fed the idea their interests are parallel merely because they have converging interests, and I believe that to be a very big mistake because of Girard's ideas about mimesis, namely conflict is more likely, not less likely, because of similarity.

I agree with you though, the same economical laws are ruling still despite this talk of a new economical world order from Wired. It is remarkable as Thiel has been pointing out, just how few new forms of wealth have been created ex-computation in the past few decades. There is a terrific amount of talking but little impact and often the Ted-Talk-People portion of the middle class becomes intensely uncomfortable when this is pointed out to them.

> On Girard, Theil's affinity with those ideas seems to me to be bound up with his struggle to reconcile his libertarianism with Christianity. My guess is that if he dropped the Christianity, the Girardian thought would fall away.

I believe Thiel has noted of himself before, that he likes to have (and looks for in others) paradoxical or perhaps contradictory ideas. I think he believes there is some kind of gap between oppositional ideas that either spits off new thoughts or at least keeps you on your toes.

> My main point is that Theil is a particularly good "personification of capital" and that if you drop the stupid anti-capitalist politics and see capital as neither good nor bad but simply the ruling principle of the world, then it can explain a lot.

Agreed.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#1000

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do.

Do you know because you know Thiel or do you know because you're a Jedi and you searched your feelings?

Because I know Thiel. Not very well, but I've stood in the same private room with him and heard him lay out his vision for how government should operate.
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