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As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

thewalrus.ca

981–989 of 989 posts

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#981

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Is it only Russia that we don't pay, or is it any country that does a war of aggression?

Ideally any, and yes, I’m aware that that currently includes the US. Being located there (though very much opposed to said war) it’s a bit difficult for me to boycott, personally.

Do you boycott Israel?

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#982
post #371
post #272

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May I suggest you to look into mesh networks? I am a huge fan of Reticulum. Using it feels like being a pioneer, the scene is very welcoming. The pitch: it is network-agnostic. The same mesh network runs on the Internet or through LoRa radios or any other physical layer than allows the exchange of data packets. It scales from private networks to global meshes. It's the wild west. People are excited, and eager to grow…

I always find these mesh networks landing pages a bit lacking in information, and I wish they weren't. How is this different to, from example, Yggdrasil Network[0]? https://yggdrasil-network.github.io/

RNS vs Yggdrasil has previously been discussed on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46689170

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#983

I see symptoms of this all the time. For example, it's a weekly annoyance for folks to pop into /r/strava to showcase their vibe-coded app that uses the Strava API to do $THING. Then someone invariably points out that an existing app (or even Strava itself) already does $THING, and often it's free. I don't mean to be negative, I think it's great that people are building useful niche software and I don't blame them fo…

> A significant part of the problem is that it's much harder nowadays to find "prior art" because keyword/boolean web searches have been FUBAR.

I’m surprised this isn’t discussed more. I find most major search engines are basically unusable since the top search results are overwhelmed with AI slop. Trying to find anything useful is like looking for a key in the mud.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#984
post #959

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> You also don't seem to understand the point of the signature. It's not to prevent fake images, it's to tie an identity to images so that that trust can be established and permanently lost in the case of a malicious actor. It was proposed as a solution to: how is any future viewer going to tell your images from "AI" fakes? You seem to be saying it is not a solution. I agree.

I have already said, it's done by establishing trust by tying identity to images. Your assertions aren't a counter to that. You thinking they are shows a lack of understanding of how to verify truth on a fundamental level. Let's also list the points you have conceded by quietly giving them up: 1. Hacking the camera is irrelevant. 2. Images can be verified. Do you want to actually engage with the conversation? The fun…

> I have already said, it's done by establishing trust by tying identity to images.

You've said it, but you've not credibly substantiated it.

Imagine a famous photo journalist dies and there emerge "AI" fake pics signed with creds stolen from his hacked camera. Trust isn't part of a solution. It is part of the problem.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#985
post #955

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> Public reports bad actors to the signing authority. Public would know the pics were fake let alone know who to report. > They and/or independent firms investigate. What's to investigate? You have a fake pic that is indistinguishable from genuine and "proved" by a sig.

Yes, "the public" includes experts in the subject field and independent witnesses to events. If your argument is that images can't be verified, you are going to need to provide some kind of backing to that. We know well that there are watermarks and tell tale signs to go off. Regardless, if they are depicting real world events, outside confirmation can be used. You also don't seem to understand the point of the signa…

> If your argument is that images can't be verified, you are going to need to provide some kind of backing to that.

I've seen no credible verification method.

If you have, then you are the one that needs to provide backing.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#986
post #771

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> People who long for the web of the 90s, I always feel like they must not be very interesting. Imagine complaining that we can't go back to libraries of the 1970s when the ones today have 3D printers, DVDs to rent, etc. because "there are too many teenagers" The Internet used to be a space for high-IQ people, and now it's filled with low attention span, low impulse control people. Tik Tok and Instagram are the worst…

I think we still have many high-IQ people on the web. Its just they are not making tiktoks. However, they are harder to find since the pool got bigger. The ease of use introduced the average individuals to the web and online gaming. When I was younger and online gaming was gaining traction my "clan" hosted servers. This is how I started dipping my toes into programming and server configuration. Literally, everyone th…

> think we still have many high-IQ people on the web. Its just they are not making tiktoks. However, they are harder to find since the pool got bigger

Yeah, that’s what I meant. Even in Tik Tok there’s a lot of very interesting history, war, etc., stuff.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#987

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fundamentally impossible. Communication is completely made up. It cannot be measured scientifically. Consider the statement: "Cows live on the moon". It is 100% true, although you may not see it that way if you misinterpret what is said. It's only a lie to the extent that your opinion says it is even though in actuality it is the truth.

That’s some serious mental gymnastics you’re applying there but that’s not really how society works. We, as a society, fully understand the concept of truthful and untruthful statements. We learn it as a child and get scalded when we lie. We depend on this understanding in law, courts, contracts, and commerce. We understand it when educators teach and when requesting services of others. If you want to claim that comm…

Right, society functions on opinion, but there is no scientific basis for it. Its just making shit up and running with it. You aren't charging someone for lying. Detecting the utterance of a lie is fundamentally impossible as there is no objective way to measure language. Language itself is just opinion. You'd, instead, be charging them for them for going against your opinion. No mental gymnastics needed. Its just the simple reality.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#988

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social media sites actually want search engines to index them. It's just much more computationally intensive and thus hard to cheaply to index a photo on Instagram or a video on TikTok or a podcast on Spotify than plain text. So search engines decide not to do it. Only google indexes YouTube transcriptions This shift to hard to cheaply index content is maybe why search engines died. People don't use hyperlinks anymor…

Yeah that's the core of it. I've seen people say their finely crafted essays get 1% of the engagement of a video. And in video there is no natural equivalent of the hyperlink, so ranking and discovery are now fully neural and centralized around Youtube.

All social media sites including sites like YouTube and reddit rely heavily on ai powered recommendation algorithms for ranking and discovery. They have done so since the introduction of the first TPU around 2016, when Instagram also decided to get rid of the chronological feed. Outside the US TikTok has largely replaced YouTube

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#989

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that's the core of it. I've seen people say their finely crafted essays get 1% of the engagement of a video. And in video there is no natural equivalent of the hyperlink, so ranking and discovery are now fully neural and centralized around Youtube.

Actually YouTube videos do hyperlink to each other.

At the end or in a corner that disappears, it's not as central to the experience as hyperlinks were. I really miss YouTube annotations. The thing I believe comes close is danmaku comments on bilibili and Nico Nico
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