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Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

reuters.com

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Re: Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

#981

I suspect that companies anticipate that AI prices are going to go way, way up, and they're going all-in on the current "cheap" credits before then.

Wouldn't the layoffs be when the price changes are announced then? Isn't going all in on current credit prices mean that you use as many parallel work streams as possible?

Re: Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

#982
post #900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so ethically and morally odious I struggle to find the words to describe it. I’ve managed people out. I’m sure I’ll have to do it again. I’ve even let people go during probation but, on the rare occasions that’s happened, I’ve seen it as a failure of the hiring process. People have families, they have mortgages, bills to pay, and a powerful need to eat (Mal, Serenity?). The last thing I want is for someone to…

> People have families, they have mortgages, bills to pay, and a powerful need to eat (Mal, Serenity?). The last thing I want is for someone to give up a stable job that allows them to do that to come and work for me only so I can fire them and leave them up the creek a few weeks or months down the line. Literally none of that is the employer’s responsibility. It’s just a business transaction. Having sufficient savin…

In my country employers have a duty of care towards their employees: "hire to fire" very clearly violates that duty of care.

Even ignoring that - let's say that duty of care didn't exist - are you telling me that you, as a human being, will not simply choose to do the right thing unless you are legislatively forced to do so? Pretty scummy when you think about it like that, isn't it? Your talk of "business transactions" is fine in the abstract but I bet you won't be so chipper about it when it happens to you.

Moreover, nobody materialises in this world with 6 months of expenses for themselves and their families magically in their bank account. Most people have to work and save for that, and that's if they're fortunate enough to have a job that pays them well enough to save after expenses. Many people don't.

Perhaps you should climb down off that high horse of yours, travel a little, learn what the world is really like, and understand the very real struggles that many people face.

Re: Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

#983

Cloudflare's stock price has been disconnected from reality for a while.. the only one that's wilder is Palantir which at least has revenue growth numbers that are very impressive.. meanwhile Cloudflare's enterprise value vs next 12 months revenue and revenue growth just don't justify this completely out of whack market valuation. I feel bad that the company has to try and sustainably justify that. It's incredible to…

"velocity" is not "frequency"; someone throwing semi-finished products at the wall to see what sticks surely has frequent product launches. But even if these ship fast from inception to launch, this scattergun approach does not scale to provide product maintenance or support. It's a productivity smokescreen for lack of a product strategy, and claiming AI will substitute for support/maintenance fits straight in with that. Anything but coherent strategy, that. Maybe here's an unexplored AI opportunity.

Re: Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

#984

> Cloudflare’s usage of AI has increased by more than 600% in the last three months alone. So did your outages...

These relative figures mean nothing. Your usage of one specific ultra-new model went from one hour a month to seven? congrats to the 600% increase. Your use of a widespread common model went from 1M tokens to 7M tokens ? Also a 600% increase. Your spend on AI from 1M/month to 84M/year ? ditto.

Other than the latter, I'd read all this as meaningless. Am I wrong?

Re: Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

#985

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The level of group think here is unbelievable. Any opinion other than this is down voted immediately. A whole page of people bargaining and not wanting to face reality. At my work, our healthcare plan renewed May 1st. We have great insurance. The CEO told us that the healthcare premiums just went up 50% so enjoy this year because it is going to be less great next year. It doesn't matter how many people have a type of…

Yeah, I just don't understand the thinking here on HN anymore. (My account is 15 years old) It was clear to me even before ChatGPT arrived that software was eventually going to go the same way agriculture went. We will simply need fewer people to do the job than before. I don't buy that AI will completely automate away all software engineering. I think if you're not in the top ~40% skill wise, you're in serious troub…

Ranking software engineers is famously hard. What does "top 40%" even mean ? Skills/Experiences/Productivity in that sector are not some Gaussian Distribution of trivially-measurable output. But even if measurable, they're not gaussian distributed for sure. My mum won't make a software engineer anyone would hire no matter how much AI you gave her to assist. If you fire all your developer staff other than the "10x-ers" who with AI assistance have gamed your metrics^W^W^Wboosted their skills to become 100x-ers then you rip the floor from your company; noone to question or review the golden code, 100% trust into something you barely understand and cannot question, and you pay for it. Maybe little now while you're being fixed on. Once AI operators try to get their "money back", there's the sucking sound of a few trillion moving from AI users to ... somewhere. Not your share price, though.

AI is a great tool. Including for software engineers to train with and learn new skills, find new application areas, build new products. It's not doing it justice to call it "autocomplete on steroids". If these five "100x-ers" leave a year in to found their own company, not the least because they've become aware of the size of the mess, then good luck swinging your product strategy to "hey AI, sell this product I'm going to tell you to build".

Re: Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

#986
post #684
post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so the management needs to cut the costs I love it that they explicitly say in their blog post "this is not a cost cutting exercise". Of course, every "regrettably..." letter from company execs is understood to be an entirely performative ritual.

One smart old guy once told me that the only language you need to speak in the financial world is spreadsheets. No words needed.

Take it a step further. Words, in the financial world are largely used for obfuscation, marketing, concealing of the truth by financially motivated actors. Thus, financial literacy is looking at the numbers, market conditions and geopolitical situation, while consciously discarding whatever bullshit corporate speak is being disseminated by captured media.

Re: Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

#987

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a somewhat traditional suggestion with a potentially massive financial and time commitment. Not that it's not something to do, but why do you think that's the move right now , especially since they're clearly established in their career and nobody cares about it after a few years?

I can't see or reply to the original comment since it's been nuked, but I can infer what it was saying. I actually started studying part-time for a mathematics degree earlier this year, and I don't plan on stopping that now. Having a degree does open doors at more traditional companies and government jobs, and it would also make immigration to another country sometime in the future a lot more straightforward. There a…

True, I guess it just seemed like an odd suggestion as the first place to go to immediately after getting laid off, but otherwise I find Uni more enjoyable and sometimes more stimulating than work. I've gone back to school on the same context before for the same reasons, but ironically ended up finding every other subject more interesting (not on paper) than continuing with only CS. GIS, Anthro, and History, thankfully the school was relatively free wheeling. Didn't end up finishing before finding another paid gig. Good luck!

Re: Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

#988
post #900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People have families, they have mortgages, bills to pay, and a powerful need to eat (Mal, Serenity?). The last thing I want is for someone to give up a stable job that allows them to do that to come and work for me only so I can fire them and leave them up the creek a few weeks or months down the line. Literally none of that is the employer’s responsibility. It’s just a business transaction. Having sufficient savin…

This is good advice. Moving the responsibility onto the employer is a BLAME game, and when people haven't prepared, it's easier if they attack the messenger instead of being critical of their own bad decisions for whom to work. Clearly some are triggered by the idea that employers should be held accountable for those that don't plan so well. The fact is, the employers are only accountable to the stakeholders and thei…

Yes I suppose this is the bare minimum, but isn’t that just a nasty way to go about things? What about responsibility and decency, do we just not do that anymore?

Re: Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

#989

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If both sides know it, working as a "churney" can be pretty chill. Like being put on the roof from the getgo.

Lol. Isn't this like being a contractor?

Yes, but your performance review is way more dramatic. Being a PIP-boy for life is not funny, but when they know and you know, it gets something of a comedic element.

Re: Cloudflare to cut about 20% of its workforce

#990

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the time, management don't even know what they don't know. As a result, entire America lost engineers and builders and now don't even know how to build rails, factories and rockets to moon.

I'm very sympathetic to this standpoint, but an obvious retort is why don't the engineers become their own boss and do better? What's stopping them?

The point of today's megascale corporations is to make it impossible for challengers to arise at all. They aren't always successful, but the direction of travel is pretty clear.
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