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The MacBook Neo

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Re: The MacBook Neo

#981

Post by dangus »

bigfishrunning wrote: post #942
dangus wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My main point isn’t about caring or not, the point is that 4GB RAM in a laptop/desktop is incredibly rare for how outdated it is. The PS4 came out in 2013 and has 8GB of RAM. In case you need help counting, that’s 13 years ago. And that’s an optimized game console with no general purpose operating system and limited multitasking capability. 10 years ago, Samsung phones were shipping with 6GB of RAM. Not many phones e…

The price of memory is insane, so if anyone wants to increase performance/dollar, they're likely going to have to do it in software. I would suspect 4Gb computers are going to come back if the hungry AI beast doesn't cool it soon.

The RAM market will stabilize. These crazy spikes never last.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#982

Post by labcomputer »

enraged_camel wrote: post #296
Reason077 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple isn’t this bad, of course, but they’re slowly heading in that direction. The number of overlapping iPad models and variants, for example, is getting kind of crazy these days. Now there’s the MacBook Neo and a rumoured new MacBook Ultra in the pipeline. The easy days of “pick standard or pro, select a display size, select RAM & storage” are starting to fade.

>> The number of overlapping iPad models and variants, for example, is getting kind of crazy these days. One of the first things Steve Jobs immediately did after returning to Apple in 1997 was to kill most of Apple's product line-up, which had exploded in his absence. Too bad he's not around to save them from the same over-segmentation anymore.

With respect, I think you're misremembering the product lineup in the 1994/5/6 era.

Back then, Apple had 16 to 32 distinct models[1] of just desktop computer (just the desktops!) with little to distinguish them. In many cases, the exact same internal hardware was shipped in two different boxes as two models aimed at two different customers (LC/Performa/Centris/Quadra/Workgroup Server). For example, the "LC 550" and "Performa 550" were the exact same computer[2] with two different names on the front, meant to be sold to the educational and home markets.

That's extremely confusing for the consumer. You had the same internal hardware being sold for two different price points, and computers with significantly different performance sold at the same price point. You don't want your customer to get analysis paralysis and give up before they purchase.

The point of Jobs's simplification is that there is one option for you to pick at a given price point in a given category of tablet/laptop/desktop, and that pricing and capability are clearly aligned. I don't see where Apple has gotten away from that.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mac_models

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_LC_500_series

Re: The MacBook Neo

#983

Post by gamblor956 »

financetechbro wrote: post #106
gamblor956 wrote: post #32

He wasn't referring to the build quality which is about average, or the ipad level performance. He was referring to the supply chain. The shock is that Apple was able to build something like this with current component costs.

“Average” build quality? All the reviews I’ve seen rage about the build quality of the Neo

Yes, compared to other Apples, which fall apart if you look at them funny.

The Apple Neo is only slightly better than an HP or Dell for the same price. But HP and Dell don't need to maintain a service center in every major city and shopping center. They make cheap devices that just work.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#984

Post by aziaziazi »

andyferris wrote: post #670
written-beyond wrote: post #634

You greatly underestimate the utility used, serviceable laptops have provided to broke students. My first laptop was a decommissioned pos office dell ultrabook. By every metrics it would've been the worst option to choose, but since it had replaceable memory I was able to push it to 16 gigs and get through my computer science degree and many side projects. Computational speed was adequate for me, I ran Linux on it. I…

It's definitely a product for the middle class, not the poor ("broke students" vs "mom bought me this laptop"). The distinction is a lot of (most?) Apple products are _expensive_ for middle class buyers, while this represents good value. If it's well designed and robust, it might be a great machine to buy second hand in 3-5 years.

Second hand apple products are fantastic deals! Just bought a second 2016 iPhone for 50€. Apple still push security updates 10 years after release! I wonder what's their business rationale, while being delighted buy the cheap, light, small and perfectly usable device compatible with my bank and all communication apps. Only downside are the unsolicited disapproving comments IRL.

I'm very keen to buy a 50€ macbook Neo in 10 years.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#986

Post by saagarjha »

matthewfcarlson wrote: post #536
saagarjha wrote: post #224

> The Neo doesn’t have a hardware indicator light for the camera. The indication for “camera in use” is only in the menu bar. There’s a privacy/security implication for this omission. According to Apple, the hardware indicator light for camera-in-use on MacBooks, iPhones, and iPads cannot be circumvented by software. If the camera is on, that light comes on, and no software can disable it. Because the Neo’s only came…

There is a ton of fascinating work to make the "software" camera in use indicator just as secure if not more secure than an LED attached to the power lines of the camera. Apple hasn't publicly talked about it much but here are two sources that aren't terrible. https://arxiv.org/abs/2510.09272 https://randomaugustine.medium.com/on-apple-exclaves-d683a2c... https://daringfireball.net/linked/2025/03/19/on-apple-exclav..…

I am well aware of that work and the result is not more secure than power lines turning the LED on.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#987

Post by saagarjha »

chongli wrote: post #951
3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is still a blackbox code implementation which could be updated at any time. I trust wires, not programmers.

The firmware could be flashed to the device in factory and then write-protected by burning a fuse in the circuit.

This is not the case.

Re: The MacBook Neo

#988

Post by saagarjha »

qingcharles wrote: post #961
matthewfcarlson wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a ton of fascinating work to make the "software" camera in use indicator just as secure if not more secure than an LED attached to the power lines of the camera. Apple hasn't publicly talked about it much but here are two sources that aren't terrible. https://arxiv.org/abs/2510.09272 https://randomaugustine.medium.com/on-apple-exclaves-d683a2c... https://daringfireball.net/linked/2025/03/19/on-apple-exclav..…

I'm pretty sure the Apple dev who was tasked with securing the older hardware "tally lamps" is on HN somewhere -- I seem to remember him posting about it. (is it you?) I used to know a guy, about 15 years ago, who made his money exclusively through buying up laptops and hacking the tally lamp code (to stop it activating) one-by-one and selling the code directly to 3LAs. It was really good money.

No, I was not in the industry at the time :)

Re: The MacBook Neo

#989

Post by saagarjha »

s3p wrote: post #888
madeofpalk wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the argument that a hardware indicator light is (more) immune to bugs? If its just software, you're a software exploit/bug away from finding a way to access the sensor without tripping the software light.

I might be mis-remembering but wasn't Pegasus spyware able to bypass the camera indicator? Or was the issue that journalists were constantly seeing the light appear for no reason. I believe it was one of those.

Pegasus is primarily a mobile spyware toolkit and iPhone does not have a hardware light

Re: The MacBook Neo

#990

Post by saagarjha »

hinkley wrote: post #478
saagarjha wrote: post #224

> The Neo doesn’t have a hardware indicator light for the camera. The indication for “camera in use” is only in the menu bar. There’s a privacy/security implication for this omission. According to Apple, the hardware indicator light for camera-in-use on MacBooks, iPhones, and iPads cannot be circumvented by software. If the camera is on, that light comes on, and no software can disable it. Because the Neo’s only came…

That's going to be a problem for the education market though.

Why?
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