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IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

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Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#981

Post by tovej »

yoavm wrote: post #957
tovej wrote: post #791

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Jewish people already loving in Palestine had a right to live there. The problem is when you try to forcefully displace an entire civilian population to make way for a colonial movement. In the same way I, as a Finn, would not have the right to take over any region in the Urals and kick out the people who live there, the Zionists had no right to do just that in Palestine since over a hundred years ago.

No one is arguing in support of displacing a population. However, it seems like you believe that everyone should just stay where there are, and no population should ever migrate to any place. That's both naive and simply was never the case in the history of human kind. People migrate, for thousands or reasons, and almost no one leaving on a land on this planet have lived there since the beginning of times. A piece of…

That is not at all what I believe, that's just you extrapolating wildly.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#982

Post by tovej »

thomassmith65 wrote: post #976
throw310822 wrote: post #900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the US currently illegally occupying large parts of Mexico and progressively colonising it, displacing and oppressing the Mexican population? And if that were the case, would you say that Mexico had started attacking the US across the border? Or would you say that the US are waging war against Mexico and Mexico is fighting back?

Are the US currently illegally occupying large parts of Mexico This comment would depress a highschool history teacher.

Yeah, the annexation of Texas. Which is similar to Israel / Palestine in many ways.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#983

Post by asacrowflies »

stoorafa wrote: post #607
krick wrote: post #600

I would like to know: is there even a single person here, who actually changed his opinion regarding this whole matter upon seeing this report? Not confirmed anything, but actually was forced to re-evaluate his opinion. Like, previously you thought that IDF are good guys, and all Israel does is justified self-defense measures, and now you see this as genocide of Palestinians? Of course, I assume, the answer is — no o…

Seems like you’re asking “what’s the point of investigating crimes against humanity?” And if that’s a question you have to ask, then clearly something is very wrong.

Seems like a good question to ask imo. The lack of accountability of crimes against humanity and children and the general apathy and shrug worthy reaction to most people to these issues especially on this site seems relevant commentary.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#984

Post by 7402 »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #907
7402 wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two years after the 2005 Israeli unilateral withdrawal from Gaza (and the Israeli government evicted Israeli settlers from Gaza), the support in Israel for a two-state solution was 70% in favor. They were optimistic! Looking at the long term history of Israel, the left was more optimistic in general about hopes for peace with the Palestinians, while the right more suspected that Arafat never really wanted peace, and…

Since 2005, Israel has aggressively settled more and more people in the West Bank, to the point where more than 10% of Israel's Jewish population (read: first-class citizens) now live in West Bank settlements, so Israel's right wing has done everything in its power to make a two-state solution less and less practical. IMO a one-state solution where everyone has equal rights is the only just and reasonable path forwar…

Hamas has a one-state transition plan: kill or drive out the Jews, or enslave the ones with technical expertise. The Israel far right has a transition plan: kill or drive out the Palestinians in the West Bank or Gaza, except for the few that don't cause them problems.

Partition of disputed territory is the least bad solution in the world we live in. "One world" government remains a utopian fantasy. Dividing the world up according to a mix of consideration of peoplehood, self-determination, and whoever won the most recent war is what humankind has figured out so far.

People who disagree with that will want to start wars. Wars are bad.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#985

Post by sosomoxie »

yoavm wrote: post #977
sosomoxie wrote: post #963

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm indigenous like the Palestinians (who also did not steal anyone's land). Zionism was created in the late 1800s with the mission to steal land and ethnically cleanse Palestine. These are concrete and well documented actions that justify Hamas's resistance.

[flagged]

Correct, I'm uninterested in hearing Zionist propaganda.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#986

Post by micromacrofoot »

lyu07282 wrote: post #697
micromacrofoot wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people in Gaza now aren't old enough to have voted for Hamas. Median age is estimated to be under 20.

Doesn't matter, there is always going to be resistance against the occupation anyway, if it isn't called "Hamas" its going to be called something else. This is not an enemy they can ever defeat and people either know what that means or are too afraid to think that far. You just can't have other peoples land, you just can't, not without vaporizing (literally [1]) the people you took it from. [1] https://www.aljazeera.…

Yes no doubt, but I still feel as though it's important to dispel the "they voted for this" myth because it comes up a lot — it may still be true if an election was held today, but we can't know because the people in Palestine haven't voted for decades. When we're talking about who's suffering there, it's primarily young people who've had no voice in anything for their entire lives.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#987

Post by xg15 »

yoavm wrote: post #955
Parae wrote: post #797

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're wrong on the definition of zionism. Zionism is a European nationalist movement that uses the assumption there is a consensual concept of "homogeneous jewish people" who have the right to self-determination to justify Palestine's colonization. Anti-zionism is being against the colonization of Palestine and being against nationalism and supremacism. Anti-semitism is hating someone because of the are jew.

So are the vast majority of Israelis, coming from Arab countries, not Zionist? What is your connection with the Zionist movement that let's you define it? When is a migration of people to a land isn't colonization, in your book?

You don't "migrate" into a land by flattening villages.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#988

Post by xg15 »

yoavm wrote: post #765
karim79 wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually got accused of being racist for saying that anti-zionism and anti-semitism are not the same thing.

I know Zionism as the idea that Jewish people have the right to self-determination. Do you: 1 - Think that it is something different? 2 - Think that it is, but Jewish people specifically do not have it? (I believe this is racist) 3 - Think that no people have it? 4 - Something else? If you think that Jewish people have it but just not in Palestine, where in the world do you think they should have had it?

Counter question, by that logic, what about the right to self-determination of the Palestinian people? Or the people of Lebanon or Syria for that matter?

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#989

Post by dash2 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #827
dash2 wrote: post #776

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are seriously claiming the attack on Gaza was not a reaction to October 7, you need to explain why Gaza was not attacked in the 20 years prior to Oct 7, but was attacked shortly after it. If you think that Israel always intended to occupy Gaza, you also need to explain why they withdrew from it in 2003.

> you need to explain why Gaza was not attacked in the 20 years prior to Oct 7 Is this a joke? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War_(2008%E2%80%932009) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_2012_Gaza%E2%80%93Israel... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Gaza_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Gaza_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2018_Gaza%E2%80%93Isr... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_2019_Gaza%E2%80%…

I’m aware of those times but none of them are comparable to the most recent war.

I don’t think your point about Netanyahu contradicts mine. I was talking about Israeli policy, not what he would have preferred that policy to be.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#990

Post by throw310822 »

thomassmith65 wrote: post #976
throw310822 wrote: post #900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the US currently illegally occupying large parts of Mexico and progressively colonising it, displacing and oppressing the Mexican population? And if that were the case, would you say that Mexico had started attacking the US across the border? Or would you say that the US are waging war against Mexico and Mexico is fighting back?

Are the US currently illegally occupying large parts of Mexico This comment would depress a highschool history teacher.

The depressing thing is that you don't know that the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo was signed 178 years ago, and that territory can be legally ceded by means of peace treaties. The part of Palestine that is considered illegally occupied is the part that lies beyond the 1949 armistice borders and has never been legally ceded to Israel by any treaty.
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