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X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

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Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#981

Post by exodust »

ImPleadThe5th wrote: post #545
exodust wrote: post #528

[flagged]

[flagged]

> How about you come back when your daughter has a fake AI nude passed around school.

Like any bad behaviour, the grown-up response should be discipline and education.

There's a million ways kids can misbehave. The idea is to get kids ready for the real world, not pretend there's nothing bad out there.

Obviously we don't want "point and click" AI nudes in the hands of minors, or kids having their own AI accounts in the first place. Parents and educators pay for their kid's devices and internet connections. If they're not being responsible, you take away the privilege until they learn about respectful behaviour.

If the kid is allowed to stay out after dark but ends up doing crime at those times, we don't ask the government to impose a curfew on every kid. We discipline the kids involved. And that's my last comment in this thread thank God, what a struggle.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#982

Post by YetAnotherNick »

myrmidon wrote: post #555
YetAnotherNick wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would raiding the office achieve in this case apart from just showing off power.

In such a case specifically: Uncover internal communication that shows the company was aware of the problem and ignored it, which presumably affects liability a lot.

Do you think they communicate via paper? Raiding office doesn't automatically gives them access to mail/slack etc. And internal comms could be asked for without the nuclear option of raiding the office

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#983

Post by londons_explore »

SilverBirch wrote: post #660
utopiah wrote: post #457

To people claiming a physical raid is pointless from the point of gathering data : - you are thinking about a company doing good things the right way. You are thinking about a company abiding by the law, storing data on its own server, having good practices, etc. The moment a company starts to do dubious stuff then good practices start to go out the window. People write email with cryptic analogies, people start dele…

It's also just very basic police work. We're investigating this company, we think they've committed a crime. Ok, why do you think that. Well they've very publicly and obviously committed a crime. Ok, are you going to prosecute them? Probably. Have you gone to their offices and gathered evidence? No thanks. Of course they're going to raid their offices! They're investigating a crime! It would be quite literally insane…

A company I worked for had a 'when the police raid the office' policy, which was to require they smash down the first door, but then open all other doors for them.

That was so that later in court it could be demonstrated the data hadn't been handed over voluntarily.

They also disconnected and blocked all overseas VPN's in the process, so local law enforcement only would get access to local data.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#984

Post by throwaway290 »

code_for_monkey wrote: post #807

lord some of the people on this site need their hard drives searched.

To me it became clear when people here rejected any compromises on privacy and anonymous on device scanning of messages/data. Not because they rejected it but how they rejected it.

People here didn't say "yeah it's a real evil problem and e2e tech that we build makes it almost impossible to catch and helps it scale, so let's find the right tradeoff that minimizes privacy invasion". No. People here just mocked "think of the children" and said something along the lines of no amount of suffering can make any restriction to privacy be acceptable. The fact that 99% of our life is literally compromising our freedom for others they don't care.

To buellerbueller's killed comment, I totally feel it. it was a shocker when it turned out many of my fellow Russians got no problem with Putin's war and I bet that's what half of USA feels.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#985

Post by realusername »

yibg wrote: post #944
realusername wrote: post #889

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I am having trouble justifying in an consistent manner why Grok / X should be liable here instead of the user. Because Grok and X aren't even doing the most basic filtering they could do to pretend to filter out CSAM.

Filtering on the platform or Grok output though? If the filtering / flagging on X is insufficient then that is a separate issue independent of Grok. If filtering output of Grok, while irresponsible in my view, I don’t see why that’s different from say photoshop not filtering its output.

Photoshop doesn't have a "transform to nude" button and if they did, they would be in the exact same kind of legal trouble as Grok.

That's the difference between a tool being used to commit crimes and a tool specifically designed to commit crimes.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#986

Post by myrmidon »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #982
myrmidon wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In such a case specifically: Uncover internal communication that shows the company was aware of the problem and ignored it, which presumably affects liability a lot.

Do you think they communicate via paper? Raiding office doesn't automatically gives them access to mail/slack etc. And internal comms could be asked for without the nuclear option of raiding the office

I'd expect to find most of the incriminating stuff in emails and short messages.

> And internal comms could be asked for without the nuclear option of raiding the office

Relying on the accused to compile and provide evidence seems naive to me.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#987

Post by utopiah »

notepad0x90 wrote: post #921
utopiah wrote: post #457

To people claiming a physical raid is pointless from the point of gathering data : - you are thinking about a company doing good things the right way. You are thinking about a company abiding by the law, storing data on its own server, having good practices, etc. The moment a company starts to do dubious stuff then good practices start to go out the window. People write email with cryptic analogies, people start dele…

Yeah, two things to add: 1) Even when you move things to a server, or remove it from your device, evidence is still left over without your knowledge sometimes. 2) Evidence of data destruction, is in itself as the name implies, evidence. And it can be used to prove things. For example, an ext4 journal or NTFS USN $J journal entry that shows "grok_version_2.4_schema.json" where twitter is claiming grok version 2.4 was…

Indeed, actions leaves traces, including the action of deleting data. It takes a LOT of expertise to be able to delete something without leaving a trail behind, if that's even feasible without going to extraordinary length.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#988

Post by csmpltn »

mortarion wrote: post #625
csmpltn wrote: post #544

[flagged]

Maybe you should look up child pornography laws in Europe. In Sweden, the mere act of scrolling by an image depicting (real or not) a child in a sexual position, and having it stored in the browser cache, is a crime with up to 2 years of prison time.

How does that negate my initial comment?

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#989

Post by utopiah »

almosthere wrote: post #870
utopiah wrote: post #457

To people claiming a physical raid is pointless from the point of gathering data : - you are thinking about a company doing good things the right way. You are thinking about a company abiding by the law, storing data on its own server, having good practices, etc. The moment a company starts to do dubious stuff then good practices start to go out the window. People write email with cryptic analogies, people start dele…

At some point in the near future I see a day where our work laptops are nothing more than a full screen streaming video to a different computer that is housed in a country that has no data extradition treaties and is business friendly. Because that country and the businesses that support that are going to get RICH from such a service.

Takes literally minutes to setup with Webtop (assuming you are familiar with Docker/Podman https://docs.linuxserver.io/images/docker-webtop/ ) , nothing to install on the thin client, the stock browser is enough.

I used this when an employer was forcing me to use Windows and I needed Linux tools to work efficiently so I connected home. Goes through firewalls, proxies, etc.

Anyway if you want to host this not at home but a cloud provider there was HavenCo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HavenCo don't ask me how I know about it, just curiosity.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#990

Post by moorebob »

bluescrn wrote: post #513
trhway wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Internet routers, network cards, the computers, OS and various application software have no guardrails and is used for all the nefarious things. Why those companies aren't raided?

They don’t provide a large platform for political speech. This isn’t about AI or CSAM (Have we seen any other AI companies raided by governments for enabling creation of deepfakes, dangerous misinformation, illegal images, or for flagrant industrial-scale copyright infringement?)

Deepfakes have been around long before X (and other chatbots) allowed undressing of real people.

The difference is that the entire political Left hate and fear Elon and are desperately trying to destroy him.

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