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Tesla ending Models S and X production

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#981

Post by CRConrad »

Traster wrote: post #517
sgjohnson wrote: post #485

Tesla will become a case study on how to completely waste the first-mover advantage. For many people, the very term EV itself is still ubiquitous to Tesla. And somehow Tesla is still worth more than every other non-Chinese automaker combined. $1.5T. GM? $80B. Stellantis? $40B. Toyota? $280B. Mercedes-Benz? $60B. BMW? $55B. Volkswagen Group? Also $55B. I’m sure I’ve missed plenty of others, but I could miss some 18 $5…

I think you're totally wrong on this. Tesla didn't waste the first mover advantage. They benefitted from it whilst it existed, but Electric vehicles turned into a commodity, which was entirely expected and there's no moat. You've explained yourself why it would be untenable for Musk to pursue becoming the biggest car manufacturer in the world - if he succeeded in that goal... he would have succeded in shrinking the v…

> It's pure logic that Tesla has to pursue bets that would justify billion dollar valuations and being a car company isn't that.

Isn't this in reply to a post (or was that another reply just below it?) about how other, "traditional", car companies are valued at 55, 60, 80, and 280 billion dollars...? Seems being a car company and having a billion dollar valuation isn't all that incompatible.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#982

Post by mancerayder »

radlad wrote: post #929
marcusverus wrote: post #834

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair market value: the price at which a thing would change hands between a willing and informed buyer and seller. A company's market cap is, by definition, its fair market value. > Tesla is not priced according to its underlying assets or technical analysis (e.g. P/E ratio), but solely based on hype/sentiment. You're right that it's not priced according to underlying assets, but it doesn't follow that it is priced on…

That's actually not quite what FMV is: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fairmarketvalue.asp > Fair market value (FMV) is similar to market value, which is the price that the asset would trade for in the open market under current conditions. However, fair market value has the following additional assumptions: Both buyer and seller are reasonably knowledgeable about the asset, Buyer and seller are behaving in their…

Hold on - your link also says

Fair market value is different from market value and appraised value.

FMV makes a lot of sense in things like insurance payouts and private equity, cuz the assets aren't liquid and have to be assessed. If the thing is already being bought and sold on public markets, like Tesla, FMV is less useful to talk about. Now you enter the realm of financial analysis (like some analyst's report about a publicly traded stock) and even financial audits and such, it's orthogonal.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#983

Post by Mr_Minderbinder »

sosomoxie wrote: post #708
Traster wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're totally wrong on this. Tesla didn't waste the first mover advantage. They benefitted from it whilst it existed, but Electric vehicles turned into a commodity, which was entirely expected and there's no moat. You've explained yourself why it would be untenable for Musk to pursue becoming the biggest car manufacturer in the world - if he succeeded in that goal... he would have succeded in shrinking the v…

Pure logic would dictate that Tesla has a market cap of around $5B. It's actually fraudulent that it's not, and for some reason the SEC allows Musk to lie on every earnings call without repercussion.

A 5B market cap would imply a P/E ratio of 1.3 and a P/FCF ratio of 0.8, which essentially would be saying “this business is only worth approximately what it made last year”. The corresponding multiples for other auto makers are typically in the high single digits. Even if you believed Tesla’s whole business would collapse tomorrow (i.e. revenue goes to zero) book value is ~83B and net cash is ~29B.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#984

Post by groundzeros2015 »

palmotea wrote: post #732
groundzeros2015 wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would cybertruck be cancelled?

> Why would cybertruck be cancelled? IIRC, the fully-electric F150 Lighting was canceled due to poor sales, and its sales were better than the Cybertruck's .

is your position that large electric trucks can't succeed in the near future?

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#985

Post by sixQuarks »

karel-3d wrote: post #767
sixQuarks wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Elon hate is really creating a blind spot for many people here. You can’t just compare Tesla to a meme stock when the founder’s side gig is launching and landing orbital rockets - a feat that even the most technologically advanced nation states have failed to accomplish. Come on people, use a little critical thinking skills.

But Tesla and SpaceX are different companies

Not for long

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#986

Post by panopticon »

annexrichmond wrote: post #219
harshaw wrote: post #15

I am confused about what Tesla is doing. They have effectively two automobile products now with one failed product (cybertruck). reading various articles about this doesn't make it more clear. Do they not want to be a car company?

How do you suppose Cybertruck is a failure? I see just as many of them as Rivians, while releasing over 5 years later.

Rivian isn't exactly selling well either.

Perhaps more interesting is the F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck in 2025 and Ford still canceled it as a failure.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#987

Post by bamboozled »

jaimex2 wrote: post #948
bamboozled wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it "make sense" to you, really? Can you provide more rationale ?

If state backed car industry like China's is dumping world wide it would be silly to head to head with them. You're just going to burn cash and a country can go at that a lot longer than a public company ever could. So you double down on what you have that no one else can compete on.

Interesting argument because most Americans seem to have decided governments are inefficient at doing things? So they're efficient at car building now?

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#988

Post by vagab0nd »

sgjohnson wrote: post #485

Tesla will become a case study on how to completely waste the first-mover advantage. For many people, the very term EV itself is still ubiquitous to Tesla. And somehow Tesla is still worth more than every other non-Chinese automaker combined. $1.5T. GM? $80B. Stellantis? $40B. Toyota? $280B. Mercedes-Benz? $60B. BMW? $55B. Volkswagen Group? Also $55B. I’m sure I’ve missed plenty of others, but I could miss some 18 $5…

I feel like there's this weird information gap that shouldn't be there in this day and age. FSD drives me around every day. 99% of the time, I don't touch the steering wheel for the entire trip, both city and highway. It's obvious to me that it is working well and has tremendous value. As far as I know, no other car on the market can do this. But apparently this info is not reaching a large number of people. I'm genuinely confused.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#989

Post by rconti »

baggachipz wrote: post #899
rconti wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, an S? Why? I've got a 3 LR too and.... I just can't say anything about the extraordinarily long-in-the-tooth S excites me. Usually something is desirable when it's new, then the desirability fades as the product ages and other new, hot things come onto the market. Don't get me wrong, I don't generally lust after EVs, but I am looking forward to the R3X....

We're all going to need to buy some R2's if we want the R3X to become a thing. I have my reservation!

:(

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#990

Post by The_President »

Natfan wrote: post #978
annexrichmond wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you suppose Cybertruck is a failure? I see just as many of them as Rivians, while releasing over 5 years later.

it isn't road legal in many countries outside of the united states

Being able to slice barb wire fence is a feature.
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