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Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

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Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#981

Post by Saline9515 »

potatoz2 wrote: post #921
Saline9515 wrote: post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, so how do you fold a Yoyo with a newborn in the arms? You can't really, and some stations have a lot of stairs. Regarding drug addicts, I saw many, it really depends on where you live. My son was born in Paris, and we left as soon as we could because it felt really stupid to endure all of this. Buying a car felt like I discovered a time travel machine.

You can leave the newborn in the stroller and lower the whole thing yourself or with someone’s help. You can hold the newborn and ask someone to fold the stroller. You can take the bus or the tramway if you really want to avoid the subway.

Tramway doesn't go into Paris, and asking someone to fold a stroller multiple times a day- no, just no.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#982

Post by LexiMax »

inglor_cz wrote: post #883
LexiMax wrote: post #815

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're sitting next to a homeless person for 20+ minutes you're not in danger, you're just uncomfortable sharing space with the less fortunate.

"you're just uncomfortable sharing space with the less fortunate." This is the sort of vacuous moral posturing that loses elections and if it wins them, it makes cities unlivable. Why should I be fine sitting next to someone who shit his pants several times and likely has lice and scabies? And yes, it occassionally happens even in Czech public transport. If you not just tolerate this, but scold people for being disgu…

I don't know how it is in Czechia, but here in the US, we have a long and storied history of suburbanization, white flight, redlining, exclusionary covenents and discriminatory mortgaging.

The result is entire generations of people who grew up in suburban sprawl, isolated away from anyone who didn't look like them. I don't expect to be able to convince those people to suddenly turn over a new leaf - if anything, the argument was lost long before I was born.

You cannot make public transportation both useful and sufficiently sanitized to where these sorts of people won't be bothered. It's an impossible standard - at least for a country as diverse as ours.

At this point, what is there to lose by speaking the truth?

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#983

Post by sillyfluke »

potato3732842 wrote: post #941
weweersdfsd wrote: post #928

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is simple. Just build big parking lots outside the city where land is cheap, and a bus service from these parking lots to the inner city. That way commuters can get to their workplace and back fast enough. Making commuting viable that way is beneficial to inner-city folk too. When people who want to live further away from city can do it effectively, housing will become cheaper for those who actually want…

It works great when done well but generally the people with expensive inner suburb real estate typically fight tooth and nail to prevent that.

Anyone care to give a detailed argument for this position. Whenever I'm buying/renting a place in the city I always check its proximity to subway/train/bus stops and how frequently those vehicles stop by. That's even when I have a car. So the solution would seem to be build out inner suburb public transportation out at the same time or beforehand so there's less inner suburb real estate people fighting it? Yeah easier said than done, but it's still worth it to eliminate kneejerk opposition when you can.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#984

Post by ajmurmann »

bombcar wrote: post #957
ajmurmann wrote: post #805

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there no demand for grocery stores? Seems like they naturally would pop up to fill demand

Grocery stores are pretty low-margin, and need a certain amount of demand (for the size Americans are used to). Some convenience stores get moderately close to being a grocery store. It'd be an interesting experiment to see how few products you could carry (and of course, only one of each type) and have people still willing to shop there.

American-sized grocery stores are relatively new though. When I lived in Germany downtowns had plenty of smaller, specialized stores. There'd be several small butchers, small bakeries and sometimes even a fish monger. Stores that carried produce would usually beer less specialized but there still would be plenty of small ones like Spa and Edeka used to have small locations in walkable areas. And of course proper markets at various frequencies.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#985

Post by flanked-evergl »

panick21_ wrote: post #903
flanked-evergl wrote: post #7

In Norway the public transportation in Oslo has become so bad that it's essentially no longer reliable. If I want to get somewhere in time, I have to use a car or a bicycle. Also, the violence and sexual assaults on public transport is getting worse, the times that it does work it's completely overloaded, and the prices are insanely high and quite frankly becoming unaffordable with the insanely high inflation and int…

I was just in Oslo and public transport was fantastic and the city was fantastic. > Also, Those sound like a bunch of far-right wing talking points. Do you have statistics to back any of this up? And they don't match my own experience even a little bit. Because in most countries cars tend to cost more overall and are generally less safe. > A city that was altered greatly to accommodate pedestrians has become a city t…

> I was just in Oslo and public transport was fantastic and the city was fantastic.

More than half of the times I want to use the train to get to work it's cancelled or delayed on one of the busiest train routes in the city during peak time. Quite often the train is so full, due to delays and cancellations, that I have to either go back home and bicycle, or wait for the next train, which again may be delayed or cancelled.

This is with the trains being out of commission for the whole of July for "repairs".

I almost entirely avoid the train and public transport now because, unlike the government, if I'm not on time or don't do my job, it actually does have negative consequences for me.

Your experience as a tourist has no weight. A city should not be built for tourists, but for it's citizens.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#986

Post by Doxin »

Vinnl wrote: post #886
loudmax wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Not Just Bikes channel really makes clear the benefits of living in an environment that isn't designed around cars, but also the challenge of designing such an environment. You can't just plop in some busses and bike lanes and expect immediate improvement, you really need to think about transportation holistically. This means considering how cars, trucks, busses, bikes, pedestrians and everything will interact. T…

This is true, but urban mobility in the Netherlands was already great a few decades ago. It's just that once you get to that point, further improvements aren't that controversial anymore, because the benefits are obvious. Thus, the situation just kept on improving, and is doing so to this day.

While true, it's also important to remind that until the 70s we were on a path to MORE car traffic, MORE traffic deaths, etc. It took a significant protest for the tide to turn. Google around for "Stop de kindremoord" -- which translates to "Stop infanticide" -- to see the sheer scale of it all. There's plenty of english language articles on the topic.

Long story short: change is possible, but rarely easy. Even in places where it seems like things have always been like they are now.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#987

Post by Vinnl »

Doxin wrote: post #986
Vinnl wrote: post #886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true, but urban mobility in the Netherlands was already great a few decades ago. It's just that once you get to that point, further improvements aren't that controversial anymore, because the benefits are obvious. Thus, the situation just kept on improving, and is doing so to this day.

While true, it's also important to remind that until the 70s we were on a path to MORE car traffic, MORE traffic deaths, etc. It took a significant protest for the tide to turn. Google around for "Stop de kindremoord" -- which translates to "Stop infanticide" -- to see the sheer scale of it all. There's plenty of english language articles on the topic. Long story short: change is possible, but rarely easy. Even in pl…

Yes, it's hard work, but it is possible to see massive improvements in your own lifetime. It might even go faster now that there are so many clear examples already, at least when it comes to the technical aspects of urban planning. So hopefully more people decide to put in the effort :)

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#988

Post by fragmede »

Saline9515 wrote: post #979
fragmede wrote: post #964

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So go twice a week? I'm not sure what to call people when they can't solve problems that easy There may be issues with my solution, but if that solution is so obvious, maybe you could have used more words in your comment.

Twice a week doesn't solve the problem that you can have groceries + kids in a cargo bike. And we aren't all retired or in a cosy 30h job that allows back and forth all week.

oh so you're lazy, got it.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#989

Post by bigyabai »

SilverElfin wrote: post #658
oldpersonintx2 wrote: post #16

Fifteen-Minute Cities and Chat Control are brought to you by the same people

Yep. It comes down to attacking the options and freedom individuals can have.

Curious to read this in the history of two accounts who were so personally offended by online speech in the following week.

The bible did warn ye: "Speak of the devil and he shall appear."

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#990

Post by GrzegorzWidla »

potac wrote: post #899
dmurray wrote: post #862

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been to Pontevedra and actually I thought it was something of a public transport hub! I was there because I was changing buses. Looking at Google Maps, there's a bus (XG628007) every 20 minutes from Marin to Pontevedra that takes 18 minutes for 7 km, along with at least two other bus routes which are less frequent and less direct. How much more public transport could you ask for? There are subway stops in Manhat…

It's true there is a bus to Marin every 20min but it uses a _single_ fixed route. People that live far away (>1km) from this path spend less time driving to Pontevedra than walking to the nearest bus stop. It is not just increasing frequency, it is a matter of providing alternative routes to serve an important part of the population.

1 km or 5 km in north Spain’s weather is a cycling first range. Electric bicycle would save those people a ton of money and time compared to cars. Netherlands considers 7.5 km radius a catchment range of a train station in non-urban setting.
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