The $25k car is going extinct? • Hacker News Board

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#981

Post by korse » Tue, Jul 01, 2025, 8:21 PM UTC

beAbU wrote: post #856

korse wrote: post #789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol it is the Hilux. This requires posting related info-graphic. Cheers. https://files.catbox.moe/2d1rwq.webp

The first 4 or 5 pickups in that infographic is the Toyota Land Cruiser, not the Hilux. Although this infographic is pretty funny, it's not accurate I'm afraid. They still make the Land Cruiser more or less in that shape and configuration: https://media.cdntoyota.co.za/toyotacms23/attachments/clz2ej...

I know this has issues. There is a more accurate one out there somewhere with actual year/models, armament specs and the conflict in which the pic was taken but I don't have quick access to it.

Still funny.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#982

Post by b00ty4breakfast » Tue, Jul 01, 2025, 10:53 PM UTC

alerighi wrote: post #436

b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not merely an issue of obtaining materially desirable consumer goods though; lots of folks get car loans because they can't afford to buy a car, even a cheap car, without one. So it's either, don't get a car and give up a lot of opportunities or hope you live in a place with decent public transit (which is not a given in many places in the US)

You can always get an used car for practically any amount of money. A lot of time an used car is even more reliable than a new shiny car full of useless electronic components. To me buying new cars is just throwing away money, simply because at the moment you brought the car out from the dealer the car just is worth 3/4 of the price you payed it, and when you have to resell it in 10 years it is worth almost nothing.

>You can always get an used car for practically any amount of money.

sure, but you'll quickly make up the difference in repair costs when the bucket of bolts you paid ~1k for starts breaking down every 3-4 months.

And, of course, you'll have to make arrangements to get to work to pay for those repairs while the car is in the shop. Which may have it's own associated costs if you're using uber or a taxi or whatever.

Better hope little Timmy has a way to get to soccer practice as well. And hopefully there's no other appointments that have to be accommodated for. It was pretty difficult getting time off to get that bum tooth checked out...

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#983

Post by tmn » Wed, Jul 02, 2025, 1:14 AM UTC

Infinity315 wrote: post #980

polski-g wrote: post #800

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny story about this. There was a woman who backed over her own kid in the driveway. For some reason, she was not imprisoned for vehicular manslaughter. So instead of not being in prison, she spent the next half decade lobbying congress to make backup cameras mandatory. And it happened. So now everyone's car costs $3k more. It would have been cheaper to put her imprison than impose a $3k cost per every car sold in…

A similar argument could be made for any safety feature that adds cost to vehicles--literally, all of them. If a death is preventable and adds on a relatively inconsequential amount to the cost of a vehicle, then it is the morally correct choice optimize for safety.

The logic doesn’t scale. You can’t impose arbitrary and subjectives thresholds to gloss over this fact. The obvious conclusion is that safety is one of many moral factors to balance.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#984

Post by dotancohen » Wed, Jul 02, 2025, 3:24 AM UTC

cogman10 wrote: post #797

dotancohen wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think that software isn't complex because you've never seen it. What should it do when the throttle pedal goes from 0 to 99 percent? That's likely an electrical issue, not a driver command to plow through the school zone. I could probably think of a dozen such scenarios, and the true number is probably in the hundreds. They all have to be proofed mathematically. With redundancy. Out of eye, out of mind.

There is fundamentally no difference between a golf car and an electric car other than a higher top speed and more powerful motor. > What should it do when the throttle pedal goes from 0 to 99 percent? How fast? 0->99% in 1 second is likely the user gunning it. 0 to 99 percent in a millisecond is likely a fault. In either case, the simplest solution is a capacitor in-between the signal and throttle. Doesn't need to b…

  > There is fundamentally no difference between a golf car and an electric car other than a higher top speed and more powerful motor.

That's the most willfully ignorant statement I've seen all week. It's like stating that there's fundamentally no difference between a giant squid and a fruit fly, because both consume organic matter and can propel themselves. Probably the only interchangeable part between the golf cart and the electron electric car is the tire valve stem cover. And most everything else operates on completely different principles, even if superficially they look similar.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#985

Post by metaltyphoon » Wed, Jul 02, 2025, 3:53 AM UTC

tmerc wrote: post #942

dudeinhawaii wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're being data driven - the narrative isn't far off from reality. Looking at inflation in isolation is also misleading. Plainly, prices have risen faster than pay. Avg. new-car price: $23,017 in 2005 -> $47,465 in 2024 (+32% after inflation). Median household income: $46,242 in 2005 -> $80,610 in 2023 (+12% after inflation).

For under 47k, (off the top of my head) you can buy a Subaru BRZ, Toyota gr86, Toyota gr Corolla, Honda Civic type r, Subaru WRX, VW gti... None of those are budget conscious family cars so something is off with that average car price you quoted. You can buy a Nissan versa for under 18k today. https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/cars/versa-sedan/specs-tr... .

> Honda Civic type r

You will NEVER get a type R from the dealer at this price

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#986

Post by zeroq » Wed, Jul 02, 2025, 4:19 AM UTC

sambf wrote: post #964

zeroq wrote: post #124

Last year we bought a car. While not being a petrol head I was still living in a lala land where you could buy a brand new car for 10k EUR. Nothing fancy, just "a car". Obviously it turned out to be not true. After some digging it turned out that in the last 10 years the price of cars went double. Literally double. Same car, like Fiat Panda, with the same engine and configuration, that ten years was worth one potato…

A used Renault Twingo II with AC cost around 5k€ if you want "just a car"

I was talking about a brand new car at the dealership.

A used car is completely different can of worms.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#987

Post by zeroq » Wed, Jul 02, 2025, 4:28 AM UTC

tricolon wrote: post #130

zeroq wrote: post #124

Last year we bought a car. While not being a petrol head I was still living in a lala land where you could buy a brand new car for 10k EUR. Nothing fancy, just "a car". Obviously it turned out to be not true. After some digging it turned out that in the last 10 years the price of cars went double. Literally double. Same car, like Fiat Panda, with the same engine and configuration, that ten years was worth one potato…

I'd never seen the word "subvention" before. Today I learned it's another way to say "subsidy".

here's a list of words that will help you communicate better with Elbonians:

  sympathetic - pleasent
  pathetic - exalted
  eventually - alternatively
  actually - currently
  lecture - reading
  fabric - factory

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#988

Post by cogman10 » Wed, Jul 02, 2025, 11:05 AM UTC

dotancohen wrote: post #984

cogman10 wrote: post #797

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is fundamentally no difference between a golf car and an electric car other than a higher top speed and more powerful motor. > What should it do when the throttle pedal goes from 0 to 99 percent? How fast? 0->99% in 1 second is likely the user gunning it. 0 to 99 percent in a millisecond is likely a fault. In either case, the simplest solution is a capacitor in-between the signal and throttle. Doesn't need to b…

> There is fundamentally no difference between a golf car and an electric car other than a higher top speed and more powerful motor. That's the most willfully ignorant statement I've seen all week. It's like stating that there's fundamentally no difference between a giant squid and a fruit fly, because both consume organic matter and can propel themselves. Probably the only interchangeable part between the golf cart…

Tell me, what's the different principles that an BEV motor uses and a golf cart motor?

What's the fundamentally different principle that the battery operates on?

Rather than just say "nuh uh". Educate me and other commenters on where the differences lay.

Because honestly, I think you're the ignorant one. You think because they are a different shape they have different operating principles.

There are differences, obviously, a golf carts doesn't need airbags, HVAC, or crumple zones. However, when it comes to the drive train, about the only fundamental difference is that BEVs have bigger motors and bigger batteries.

There's a reason average people have been able to convert their ICE vehicles into BEVs. It's that the most complex part is storing the batteries and attaching the motor.

https://youtu.be/dXCTXxL5lr0?si=8FF_5_bkErZVl5UD

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#989

Post by taneliv » Wed, Jul 02, 2025, 1:27 PM UTC

antisthenes wrote: post #698

taneliv wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A word of warning. Usually these things are simple, but not always. Either way, you'll get your hands dirty, and mind off other things. The YT video for changing my cars' front light bulbs was less than two minutes. After half an hour and a lot of scratches / bruises, I thought I got it done. Started the car, checked the light goes on and off. Scrub hands from dust and dirt, be happy. Mandatory inspection two months…

> In other words, I had been blinding oncoming traffic. Most modern cars blind oncoming traffic anyway. Either that or 20%+ of morons riding around with high beams and blue/purple LED retrofits. You may have been defeated by the inspection, but the battle for headlight brightness/alignment was lost years ago. Or maybe their "alignment" tool was a scam you got robbed of 15 euros?

I don't think there's any incentive for them to scam like that. The inspection shop I took it to was not a repair shop. Also further inspections for the repairs can be performed in any qualified shop.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#990

Post by rekabis » Wed, Jul 02, 2025, 1:57 PM UTC

b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #275

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My reptilian-brain logic prevents me from even considering getting a loan for car. Houses increase in value, therefore it makes a certain amount of sense to get a loan / mortgage for the purchase of a house (but mainly because no-one - in the world in which I live - can afford to buy one cash). Cars decrease in value, very quickly. Getting a loan for a car is throwing more money away than buying a car in the first pl…

It's not merely an issue of obtaining materially desirable consumer goods though; lots of folks get car loans because they can't afford to buy a car, even a cheap car, without one. So it's either, don't get a car and give up a lot of opportunities or hope you live in a place with decent public transit (which is not a given in many places in the US)

> lots of folks get car loans because they can't afford to buy a car, even a cheap car, without one.

Then they shouldn’t get a new car, full stop. Older used cars can be perfectly serviceable with some research into lemon patterns and a pre-purchase inspection by a trusted mechanic. I have found the vlogger Car Wizard to be particularly accurate in his assessments of which used vehicles are great buys and which ones you need to stay the hell away from.

None of my cars are less than two decades old, and none of them cost me more than a new one would, even after the purchase price and all repairs, maintenance, and fuel are added up. If you manage to choose wisely, it is unlikely that you would ever pay more on a used vehicle, even over literal decades, than you would with a new car.

Now sure, you will never be able to own a new shiny. You will never be able to peacock around in a brand-new vehicle. But trying to impress people via copious displays of wealth is a fool’s errand. Intentional attempts at external validation always are.