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I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

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Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#981
This user just doesn't understand how to use an LLM properly.

The best solution to hallucination and inaccuracy is to give the LLM mechanisms for looking up the information it lacks. Tools, MCP, RAG, etc are crucial for use cases where you are looking for factual responses.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#982

I get so confused on this. I play around, test, and mess with LLMs all the time and they are miraculous. Just amazing, doing things we dreamed about for decades. I mean, I can ask for obscure things with subtle nuance where I misspell words and mess up my question and it figures it out. It talks to me like a person. It generates really cool images. It helps me write code. And just tons of other stuff that astounds me…

I blame overpromised expectations from startups and public companies, screaming about AGI and superintelligence.

Truly amazing technology which is very good at generating and correcting texts is marketed as senior developer, talented artist, and black box that has solution to all your problems. This impression shatters on the first blatant mistake, e.g. counting elephant legs: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38766512

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#983
post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A municipality in Norway used LLM to create a report about the school structure in the municipality (how many schools are there, how many should there be, where should they be, how big should they be, pros and cons of different size schools and classes etc etc). Turns out the LLM invented scientific papers to use as references and the whole report is complete and utter garbage based on hallucinations.

And that says… what? The entire LLM technology is worthless for all applications, from all implementations? A company I worked for spent millions on a customer service solution that never worked. I wouldn’t say that contracted software is useless.

> And that says… what? The entire LLM technology is worthless for all applications, from all implementations?

You're the first in the thread to have brought that up; there are far more charitable ways to have interpreted the post you're replying to.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#984
post #6
post #3

You're using them wrong. Everyone is though I can't fault you specifically. Chatbot is like the worst possible application of these technologies. Of late, deaf tech forums are taken over by language model debates over which works best for speech transcription. (Multimodal language models are the the state of the art in machine transcription. Everyone seems to forget that when complaining they can't cite sources for s…

> You're using them wrong. Everyone is though I can't fault you specifically. If everyone is using them wrong, I would argue that says something more about them than the users. Chat-based interfaces are the thing that kicked LLMs into the mainstream consciousness and started the cycle/trajectory we’re on now. If this is the wrong use case, everything the author said is still true. There are still applications made be…

“If everything smells like shit, check your shoe.”

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#985

I’ve been using Claude a lot lately, and I must say I very much disagree. For example, the other day I was chatting with it about the health risks associated with my high consumption of grown salmon. It then generated a small program to simulate the accumulation of PCB in my body. I could review the program, ask questions about the assumptions, etc. It all seemed very reasonable. A toxicokinetic analysis it called it…

"Trust but verify" With an LLM it should be "Don't trust, verify" - but it isn't that hard to verify LLM claims, just ask it for original sources. Compare to ye olde scientific calculators (90s), they were allowed in tests because even though they could solve equations, they couldn't show the work. And showing the work was 90% of the score. At best you could use one to verify your solution. But then tech progressed a…

> it isn't that hard to verify LLM claims, just ask it for original sources

Have you tried actually doing this? Most of the time it makes up urls that don't exist or contradict the answer it just gave.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#986
post #569
post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They push the narrative that they’ve created something akin to human cognition This is your interpretation of what these companies are saying. I'd love to see if some company specifically anything like that? Out of the last 100 years how many inventions have been made that could make any human awe like llms do right now? How many things from today when brought back into 2010 would make the person using it make it f…

No major company directly states "We have created human-like intelligence," they intentionally use suggestive language that leads people to think AI is approaching human cognition. This helps with hype, investment, and PR. >I'd love to see if some company specifically anything like that? 1. DeepMind researchers: Sparks of Artificial General Intelligence: Early experiments with GPT-4 - https://arxiv.org/abs/2303.12712…

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Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#987

can we stop using such a confusing word as "bullish" please? saying "why are people bullish" only to continue with bullying does not add any clarity to this world

What's confusing about the word bullish?

what's confusing about the word bullying?

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#988

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so confused too. I hold these beliefs at the same time, and I don't feel they don't contradict each other, but apparently for many people some of these do: - LLMs are a miraculous technology that are capable of tasks far beyond what we believed would be achievable with AI/ML in the near future. Playing with them makes me constantly feel like "this is like sci-fi, this shouldn't be possible with 2025's technology…

> but even just the tought of becoming... irrelevant is depressing In my opinion, there can exist no AI, person, tool, ultra-sentient omniscient being, etc. that would ever render you irrelevant. Your existence, experiences, and perception of reality are all literally irreplaceable, and (again, just my opinion) inherently meaningful. I don't think anyone's value comes from their ability to perform any particular feat…

Thank you, you really are a sweetheart. And correct. But it's not easy to combat the anxiety.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#989

I get so confused on this. I play around, test, and mess with LLMs all the time and they are miraculous. Just amazing, doing things we dreamed about for decades. I mean, I can ask for obscure things with subtle nuance where I misspell words and mess up my question and it figures it out. It talks to me like a person. It generates really cool images. It helps me write code. And just tons of other stuff that astounds me…

> Wah, it can't write code like a Senior engineer with 20 years of experience! No, that's not my problem with it. My problem with it is that inbuilt into the models of all LLMs is that they'll fabricate a lot. What's worse, people are treating them as authoritative. Sure, sometimes it produces useful code. And often, it'll simply call the "doTheHardPart()" method. I've even caught it literally writing the wrong algor…

But this was true before LLMs. People would and still do take any old thing from an internet search and treat it as true. There is a known, difficult-to-remedy failure to properly adjudicate information and source quality, and you can find it discussed in research prior to the computer age. It is a user problem more than a system problem. In my experience, with the way I interact with LLMs, they are more likely to give me useful output than not, and this is borne out by mainstream non-edge-case academic peer-reviewed work. Useful does not necessarily equal 100% correct, just as a Google search does not. I judge and vet all information, whether from an LLM, search, book, paper, or wherever We can build a straw person who "always" takes LLM output as true and uses it as-is but those are the same people who use most information tools poorly, be they internet search, dictionaries, or even looking in their own files for their own work or sent mail (I say this as an IT professional who has seen the worker types from before the pre-internet days through now). In any case, we use automobiles despite others misusing them. But only the foolish among us completely take our hands off the wheel for any supposed "self-driving" features. While we must prevent and decry the misuse by fools, we cannot let their ignorance hold us back. Let's let their ignorance help make tools, as they help identify more undesirable scenarios.
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