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Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

bbc.com

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Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#981

Post by scop »

basisword wrote: post #389

If European leaders don't watch this and realise they need to take control of their own destiny they're idiots. Several European leaders visited this week bending the knee to try and stave off tariffs. Time to stand up, realise the US is no longer a reliable ally, and start building (on all fronts - military, manufacturing, tech, etc). Given the American people voted for this guy twice - the second time in spite of J…

The elephant in the room though is Europe. Trump wants Europe to step up and act more independently. Pay their fair share for NATO. Increase their active militaries.

Here's another fact to remember: Trump told Europe to kill Nord stream pipeline during his first term. He didn't want them tied economically to Putin. He didn't want Europe to depend upon Putin! Why? Because he's Putin's ally? Or maybe he is trying to make strong, independent countries that act as a deterrent.

That would be a hell of a deterrent, instead of old people with no kids droning on endlessly about NATO.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#982

Post by casenmgreen »

AlexatParis wrote: post #303

I am born in Ukraine and live now in Europe. As European I may understand your disappointment with the West letting down some "rules based" order and democratic values. Yet as Ukrainian, I know unfortunately that the premises of the "rules based world" do not apply to many regions in the world, inclusive Ukraine. Let me explain, a rule-based order means that the monopoly of violence is the privilege of the state: if…

> you do not understand why Zelensky has sacrificed 1million people

Vladimir invaded, and has never asked for or offered peace, not that he could be trusted if he did.

What else could UA do except fight.

The idea Z chose this route, that there were other routes, is incorrect.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#983

Post by ProllyInfamous »

miramba wrote: post #237

How the mighty have fallen. The 20th century was the american century, the 21st doesn't look like it lately. This is an empire in decline.

>This is an empire in decline.

"To the privileged, equality feels like oppression" [questionable attribution]

As a retired union [IBEW] American, I am happy to see more countries gain footing within our global economy. Respectable competition among a distribution of the powerful keeps any one entity from a monopoly of exploiting the entire world/workers.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#985

Post by zo1 »

GMoromisato wrote: post #270

I would like to know what the alternatives are. None that I can think of are palatable: 1. Support Ukraine enough so that Russia doesn't take too much more territory, but not enough for Russia to feel threatened and escalate the war. This was the Biden plan and it sounds like what Europe wants. I just don't see how this ends the war. Is this just buying time for someone to depose Putin? 2. Support Ukraine enough so i…

Had this on another comment, but decided to respond here more in the root:

If Russia invades a NATO country, then you guys can worry about WW3. Until then, leave it be. We could have avoided a million deaths by now if we weren't adamant to "stick it to Russia". Either Ukraine is a part of NATO, or not.

If the world let it be back in 2022, Russia would have finished invading Ukraine in a week, and then would have been stuck dealing with incredible amounts of terrorism and guerilla warfare coming from a very large Ukrainian population. What exactly would that outcome have helped them in this supposedly-dangerous "invasion of Europe"? More balls and courage to invade another country?

Same outcome if they win tomorrow after 3 bloody years of war. You think they want another European country? What for? You think Putin can continue to convince his populace to keep subsidizing more wars at this point?

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#986

Post by [deleted] »

crossroadsguy wrote: post #904

From Wikipedia. Just as a cliched reminder: > In 1994, Ukraine agreed to transfer these weapons to Russia for dismantlement and became a party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, in exchange for economic compensation and security assurances from Russia, the United States, United Kingdom and France to respect the Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders. Years later, Russia…

[deleted]

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#987

Post by lee »

GMoromisato wrote: post #270

I would like to know what the alternatives are. None that I can think of are palatable: 1. Support Ukraine enough so that Russia doesn't take too much more territory, but not enough for Russia to feel threatened and escalate the war. This was the Biden plan and it sounds like what Europe wants. I just don't see how this ends the war. Is this just buying time for someone to depose Putin? 2. Support Ukraine enough so i…

This is a war of attrition.

Russia is expending its soviet cold war materiel. Its trade embargo is seriously undermining its ability to continue to fight. It may be sooner than we think that they'll run out of weapons and equipment so long as Ukraine has support from its allies.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#990

Post by dang »

hashstring wrote: post #628

> It sounds like we’re attaching a few conditions in hopes to end the killing You really believe that the current administration is acting out of “hopes to end the killing”? What do you think Greenland is about? About spreading christianity? The current administration is failing and the top % is profiting off it; eating itself up. It’s a pattern that’s well known. Internationally, the US is rapidly losing allies all…

We detached this offtopic subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43213104.
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