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"Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

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Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#981

Post by boroboro4 »

DannyBee wrote: post #843
arunabha wrote: post #503

In general, people are going to interpret this EO with their own lens. Unsurprisingly, reasonable people may disagree on the merits of the EO as a whole. However this part of the EO is pretty concerning > 'The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President’s supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch' and later > 'No employee of the executive bra…

Lawyer here. So i think this is all insane, and a power grab, to start out. But not because of these parts of this EO I think people are trying to assume this says "the president gets to ignore the courts and congress", but it, uh, doesn't actually say that anywhere. I would very conservatively guesstimate at least 50% of people assume trump will go that route, and so they assume this is the method by which he will d…

What are the real power grabs/most insane things happening now in your opinion?

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#982

Post by DannyBee »

tptacek wrote: post #853
DannyBee wrote: post #843

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lawyer here. So i think this is all insane, and a power grab, to start out. But not because of these parts of this EO I think people are trying to assume this says "the president gets to ignore the courts and congress", but it, uh, doesn't actually say that anywhere. I would very conservatively guesstimate at least 50% of people assume trump will go that route, and so they assume this is the method by which he will d…

Did you see Walter Olson's Cato bit? I had the same take you have (I have associates that worked at FTC until recently, were familiar with the process, and pointed out basically the same thing --- that the independent agencies have so many DOJ touchpoints that the administration already has effective control). But Olson says the prospect of all the independent agencies needing to run their rulemaking processes throug…

I also (like nullc ) agree with his take that the OIRA part is more important. But I’m sort of not sure I agree with his argument about their independence. Walter is brilliant so I may just be missing something that is in his brain and left unsaid. ;)

He agrees that most were never really independent but points out some and goes into a chat about the UET. The UET seems mostly irrelevant here. There is no 4th branch. They are either executive agencies or not.

They are further either exercising power delegated from Congress, or exercising power delegated from the executive. If the former, Trump can’t control them, even under most interpretations of UET, but then you have non delegation problems to deal with. This is the OIG case.

If they are exercising power granted to the executive, it’s literally his right to control them.

The constitution doesn’t give a third option where congress can establish agencies that have power from the executive but the executive can’t control them. They can only establish agencies with no real power that the executive can’t control

I can believe after ~250 years we have some weird edge cases, but it seems fine to clean that up

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#983

Post by longtimelistnr »

latentcall wrote: post #962

“At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it?-- Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never!--All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or m…

I have never read this, but I really really enjoyed it. It is a great and succinct explanation of the circumstances leading up to a civil war. Very applicable to the situation in the U.S. today.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#987

Post by insane_dreamer »

kelnos wrote: post #941
insane_dreamer wrote: post #394

SCOTUS bears a tremendous amount of responsibility for Trump's power grab. Its immunity-granting ruling means that it's extremely difficult to stop a President who decides to simply ignore the law. Even if you think Trump is a "good guy" who is "doing the right thing" , he's setting precedents whereby a President who is a "bad guy" could turn dictator, and then what? Literally the only option is impeachment, but the…

I'm not sure that SCOTUS's immunity ruling is all that important here. It mainly served to delay Trump's federal criminal trials until it was too late to get anywhere. In the absence of that ruling, a president could still -- in collusion with their VP -- obtain immunity by: 1. While in office, relying on the DoJ's policy of never indicting a sitting president. (Not to mention the fact that they control the DoJ.) 2.…

Sure, Trump could "find a way" regardless. But the SCOTUS ruling gives him more of a cover, and more importantly, removed a potential threat.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#988

Post by insane_dreamer »

somenameforme wrote: post #125
bobongo wrote: post #7

“ Sec. 7. Rules of Conduct Guiding Federal Employees’ Interpretation of the Law. The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President’s supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch. The President and the Attorney General’s opinions on questions of law are controlling on all employees in the conduct of their official duties. No employee of the executi…

I think a lot of people that are freaking out are missing that this applies to the executive branch, over whom the President has already perfectly well established. Literally the first statement of article 2 of the US Constitution (which lays out the power/rules for the executive branch) is "The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America." The main point of this executive order is…

You're misunderstanding the EO. It has nothing to do with the Chevron deference (and you are also misunderstanding the impact of the Chevron deference)

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#989

Post by thrance »

hector126 wrote: post #975
thrance wrote: post #918

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A new president, sure. But an opponent? We'll see I guess. Remember when Trump said "we wouldn't have to vote ever again"? That was 3 months ago, so maybe your memory doesn't go that far.

I do remember, obviously. Those kind of tired jabs are better suited for /r/politics, I'm sure you'll be right at home there :) That said, I also remember when Trump said he'd build a wall and that Mexico would pay for it. A remarkable amount of what Trump says isn't true, I think everyone's in agreement on that. If the country is happy with the state of affairs in 2028 then I expect you'll have JD Vance as your pres…

If your only insurance that Trump and his party will not attempt to illegally hold onto power one way or another is that they constantly lie and may have lied about doing that too, it provides me with little confidence.

You fall in the common liberal trap of putting too much faith in the strength of our institutions and democracy. The president is already quite literally above the law, Congress remains passive in the face of obvious unconstitutional acts and the supreme court is on board with it all. Why would they acknowledge the results of a losing election? If it wasn't for the (relative) moral integrity of Mike Pence last time, who knows what would have happened.

And if we do switch to democrats, then cool, I'll be happy to eat my hat and give you my five mea culpas. In the meantime, please don't shoot down any worry about the current distressing concentration of power :)

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#990

Post by dang »

operationcwal wrote: post #50
brian_herman wrote: post #48

[flagged]

[flagged]

You can't attack others like this on HN, regardless of how wrong they are or you feel they are.

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

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