Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza • Hacker News Board

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#981

Post by worik » Sat, Jan 18, 2025, 7:15 PM UTC

tdeck wrote: post #263

worik wrote: post #139

Time to pay the piper. IMO Iran is the winner (least damaged) out of all this. Their proxies are smashed, but the core strength is still the same. Israel has blown all its international credibility. The International Court of Justice verdict will be very interesting. If it goes against Israel then BDS will (should) become the policy for all countries.

Israel already violated multiple clear orders from the ICJ so I honestly don't see what mechanism would hold them accountable.

> Israel already violated multiple clear orders from the ICJ so I honestly don't see what mechanism would hold them accountable.

That is the point of BDS

After all it was scantions from the West that bought down the other apartheid regime in the 1990s

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#982

Post by sershe » Sat, Jan 18, 2025, 8:11 PM UTC

mkoubaa wrote: post #863

cbeach wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a telling statement about the militant nature of Gazans that not even religiously-aligned neighbouring countries will accept them as immigrants.

They neighboring countries are allowed sovereignty by the west with the condition that they do what Israel tells them to do

This doesn't make sense on multiple levels. First of all, why wouldn't Israel want Gazans to go away? All of them somehow moving to Egypt or Syria might in fact be the dream outcome for Israel.

As it stands, the track record of Gazans avoiding "oppression" by joining their co-religionists is being kicked out of Jordan for being a disruptive influence, and then playing the main role in turning Lebanon into a failed state. No wonder Egypt doesn't want them!

Given that many Gazans do migrate individually, it might even get worse with time - the more capable and less political a Gazan is, the more likely they would be to migrate away, leading to a vicious cycle on the margins

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#983

Post by sempron64 » Sat, Jan 18, 2025, 11:24 PM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #892

sempron64 wrote: post #850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

A foreign territory that israel is at the same time at war with, but also controls borders, imports/exports, airspace and the population registry. Also, what about the West Bank? The PA is decisively not at war with Israel, yet the occupation there is even stricter than in Gaza. The Israeli government seems to view it as a Schrödinger's territory that at the same time is part of the state and not part of the state.

It's called disputed territory. That's the nature of disputed territory. South Korea doesn't owe North Korean citizens any rights while they are at war (since the 50s), for example, and claims the whole Korean peninsula.

It is wrong to say the PA is not at war with Israel. They currently have a cooperation agreement they are holding to. The PA still compensates any terrorists committing attacks against Israel and disputes Israel's sovereignty. The issue is not resolved as the implementation of the agreements at the Camp David accords were interrupted by the second intifada.

This is what is called an unresolved conflict. It is true that Israel has full military control. The reason the conflict is unresolved is because the Palestinians refuse to capitulate under any circumstances, and because despite all the claims to the contrary, Israel is actually unwilling to destroy, oppressively occupy, or perpetrate a genocide on the Palestinians.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#984

Post by zelphirkalt » Sat, Jan 18, 2025, 11:55 PM UTC

Sooo, now we can get the process of extracting Netanyahu and his gang out of Israel rolling and handing him over to the international criminal court ... right?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#985

Post by underdeserver » Sun, Jan 19, 2025, 9:58 AM UTC

Ntrails wrote: post #903

macspoofing wrote: post #877

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is exactly the same argument that Russia has been using to annex territories such as Crimea The rhetoric may be superficially similar, but facts on the ground aren't. The Russian state is not under an existential threat in the same way that Israel would be with Hezbollah in the north, and a similar entity in the West Bank and Gaza. Israel is a tiny nation with a tiny population. Russian and Israel's security is…

> I mentioned 1967 borders, because as best as I can gather, that is the current Palestinian position. The Hamas position (as best I can figure it) is the dissolution of the Israeli state entirely and Palestine restored. Whether you consider that the Palestinian position is open. The Israeli position (as best I figure it) is to do whatever it takes to be unassailable - everything else is second order. There are much…

> The Hamas position (as best I can figure it) is the dissolution of the Israeli state entirely and Palestine restored.

Not restored, as Palestine in what is today Israel's area was never an independent country.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#986

Post by underdeserver » Sun, Jan 19, 2025, 10:05 AM UTC

ipnon wrote: post #221

woooooo wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still have millions of people in Gaza and Lebanon who got bombed by Israel. Whether it's the existing groups or new groups going forward, the grievances are still there and bigger than ever. Let's wait a few before we declare anything changed.

All of my Lebanese friends, quite young, have stories about the wars with Israel. The helicopters and bombs over Beirut. Waking up in fear in the night. They have been grieved in regards to Israel their whole life. In this respect not much has changed.

All Israelis have stories about rockets over Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Haifa and Be'er Sheba. Waking up in fear in the night, for over a year now, and before that in previous rounds. At least the Lebanese see that the targets were military, and strikes were, more or less, precise.

Peace between Israel and Lebanon is a necessity for both sides, and both sides suffered greatly over the many years of conflict. There is no real reason for there not to be peace between these two countries, except for latent animosity, mostly on the Lebanese side. I hope they can overcome it.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#987

Post by underdeserver » Sun, Jan 19, 2025, 10:07 AM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #257

Workaccount2 wrote: post #39

So I suppose it's just back to the status quo? What has really changed that will make a difference in 2-3 years from now? Israel has sowed a whole fresh generation of "I will sacrifice everything to wipe Israel" Palestinian youth.

> What has really changed that will make a difference in 2-3 years from now? The whole Iranian anti Israel coalition has been badly beaten! Hezbollah barely exists anymore. The Assad regime is toppled. Iran itself has learned that Israel can attack them at will. The Houthis are still active, but too far away to do real damage. Hamas itself still exists, but in a deeply degraded form. Their leaders are dead. Their arm…

The Houthis are armed with Iranian-made ballistic missiles, and do cause real damage.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/lucky-there-were-no-children-s...

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#988

Post by underdeserver » Sun, Jan 19, 2025, 10:11 AM UTC

ookdatnog wrote: post #963

robertoandred wrote: post #906

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you know that Gaza has shopping malls and waterfront resorts? Did you know that Israel had been opening up more and more jobs for Palestinians within Israel? Until they decided to throw all that progress away on October 7th.

Progress towards what, exactly? Their own state? Or full citizenship of Israel? Or can you think of another acceptable outcome?

Their own state. This is what people keep missing in discussions about this conflict: you don't get your own state by having the world, or Israel, or the US, or Iran "grant" it to you. You get your own state by building it - having functional institutions, developing an economy, reaching out to build peaceful international relations.

Hamas chose to take all that steel and concrete, donated in the billions by the entire world, and build tunnels and rockets instead of universities and civilian infrastructure.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#989

Post by underdeserver » Sun, Jan 19, 2025, 4:12 PM UTC

computerthings wrote: post #719

Sabinus wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This was genocide Please don't abuse this word. If Israel was conducing genocide there wouldn't be Arab Israelis, and the population of Gaza would not grow over time. Ethnic cleansing and insufficient proportionality consideration, likely. Not genocide. The Israelis don't want to remove Palestinians from the face of the earth, they want political and physical safety for the Jews, and history has worked out such that…

> the population of Gaza would not grow over time That has nothing to do with anything. If I steal from you, I steal from you, doesn't matter if you get more than I stole from elsewhere. By that logic, not even the Shoa would be a genocide. So how can people say this, and not even once, but over and over? It just means you're not even treating the charge seriously. > The Israelis don't want to remove Palestinians fro…

Read the article you linked to. In Srebrenica there were 40,000 Bosnian Muslims. 8,000 killed (and many more deported) with the goal of exterminating the rest is 20%. In Gaza, according to the highest Hamas estimates, it's 40,000, most of them apparently militants. Out of 2 million inhabitants that's 2%.

And Bosnian Muslims did not initiate a pogrom that killed 1200 people, out of the blue, against Bosnians when that happened.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#990

Post by eastbound » Mon, Jan 20, 2025, 7:15 PM UTC

Thiez wrote: post #962

eastbound wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What swayed me to one side was not looking at the past, but looking at the future. One side is able to develop this land and benefit the rest of the world. The other side is unstoppingly doing damage to others, even in my home country (France), while providing no value whatsoever. What you do with your life matters.

What an absurd thing to say. You could say the same of any oppressor and/or colonizer in history. "Well at least they're doing something useful with the land, the people that are being crushed under their boots are just screaming angrily and acting aggressive. All the oppressed are good for is slave labor and dieing." Lucky many people around the world have evolved their morality beyond 'might makes right'.

What do you mean, have evolved their morality. They threw 7000 rockets in resident housing for 6 months, kidnapped civilians with babies 9 months old, and you support their right to create a state with an army, and last time they had a state, they voted 51% Hamas.

Sounds awfully like a crime against humanity, and supporting this is probably illegal.