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Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

news.patreon.com

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Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#981

Post by rswail »

koyote wrote: post #713
josephg wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which apps? The only one I know about is Reddit, where the web version is crippled compared to the app. (You can’t read all the comments). But old.reddit.com works fine on mobile - even if you have to constantly zoom in and out.

Tiktok and Instagram don't force you to, but remind you that you really should be using the App. There was an Australian low-cost airline (Bonza) that only allowed bookings via their app. It went under very quickly (I wonder why...).

Bonza went under because Qantas/Virgin maintain a lock on airport "slots" in the primary markets of Melbourne and Sydney.

That's why every day, there are flights from both airlines that are "cancelled" and everyone moved to the next flight. Qantas got so outrageous that they were selling tickets for "flights" that they knew were never going to fly.

Australia's airport and airline "markets" are monopolies (airports) combined with oligarchies (Qantas/Virgin).

Like most consumer industries in Australia, there is a natural oligarchy or regulated market size, thing supermarkets (Coles/Woolworths + Aldi/IGA), banks (the "big 4"), Fuel, Hotels/Pubs, etc.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#982

Post by beeboobaa3 »

mrweasel wrote: post #795
beeboobaa3 wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? because apple gimps their web browser capabilities & performance to incentivize developers to enter the walled garden

That bullshit to be honest. Not the lack of features in Safari, that's very real, but you don't need most of it. There is nothing that Patreon needs to do that could not be done by a 15 year old browser, let alone the newest version of Safari on iOS. I can understand that developers would like to use certain feature, or that they'd make the job easier, but they are not required. Patreon isn't cutting edge web develop…

It needs:

* An easy way to "install" the app. People want an icon on their home screen.

* To work offline and have a decent amount of storage for images and such.

* To start in a reasonable amount of time, even if the network is flaky.

And a bunch more of requirements. But just these three are hard to accomplish as a PWA. It should be possible, sure, but you'll be investing a lot of development time in what eventually amounts to an inferior experience when compared with a native app.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#983

Post by deanishe »

Nekorosu wrote: post #750
cortesoft wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does? Well, there is a simple way to test this... just get rid of the Patreon iOS app and just use a web version. Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? I wish fewer companies had apps. I don't need an app for everything. I don'…

Heh. I didn't even know there was a Patreon app. There is an issue though. A lot of people (not me) use phone as their main computing device. And Apple is well known for keeping web app experience subpar compared to native app experience. Safari is lagging behind all the other browsers regarding modern APIs support. Bugs are not getting patched for years. At the same time other web rendering engines are not allowed o…

> Apple is well known for keeping web app experience subpar compared to native app experience.

Web apps are subpar compared to native apps.

I'm not surprised Apple is in no hurry to further enable lowest-common-denominator shovelware.

Electron is a plague on macOS.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#984

Post by Tagbert »

lapcat wrote: post #536
baby_souffle wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The economics would suggest that Patreon should do away with their iOS app, focus iOS users on the web, and everyone would be ahead. Apple doesn’t let web apps do everything that native apps can do. Their App Store is the only way people get apps on their device and if a search for ‘patreon’ in the App Store returns nothing, that’s a lot of confused or angry people that are going to wonder what their monthly bill i…

> Their App Store is the only way people get apps on their device and if a search for ‘patreon’ in the App Store returns nothing, that’s a lot of confused or angry people that are going to wonder what their monthly bill is for. I just searched the App Store for Patreon: The top hit was an ad for Ashley Madison. Seriously. The second hit was the Patreon app. The third hit was ChatGPT for some reason. But if the Patreo…

That Ashely Madison listing is a paid listing. The first one or two items in results are always paid listings.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#985

Post by lapcat »

Tagbert wrote: post #984
lapcat wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their App Store is the only way people get apps on their device and if a search for ‘patreon’ in the App Store returns nothing, that’s a lot of confused or angry people that are going to wonder what their monthly bill is for. I just searched the App Store for Patreon: The top hit was an ad for Ashley Madison. Seriously. The second hit was the Patreon app. The third hit was ChatGPT for some reason. But if the Patreo…

That Ashely Madison listing is a paid listing. The first one or two items in results are always paid listings.

We're all aware of App Store Search Ads. I even said, "The top hit was an ad for Ashley Madison." But thanks for the mansplaining.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#986

Post by kjkjadksj »

josephg wrote: post #446
kjkjadksj wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apps are now forcing you to use their website skin even though its damn easy to offer a mobile web alternative that doesn't squander ever precious local storage.

Which apps? The only one I know about is Reddit, where the web version is crippled compared to the app. (You can’t read all the comments). But old.reddit.com works fine on mobile - even if you have to constantly zoom in and out.

Uber lets you use mobile web. You try that on lyft they text you a link to download the app. As a result a bookmark to mobile web uber lives on my phone rather than the 300mb lyft app.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#987

Post by mcguire »

lomase wrote: post #793
mcguire wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free upgrades are problematic themselves: once you've saturated your market (a good place to be, right?) you no longer have income to provide upgrades.

FL Studio has had free updates for +23 years and is a company with profit. It does not look like a problem for them. Do you have an example of a company that saturated the market with free upgrades and went down because of it?

Given that I'd never heard of them (and I've played around with a few DAWs), I don't think they've saturated their market.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#988

Post by bloppe »

vanchor3 wrote: post #950
bloppe wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patreon's take will not be the same. Apple's fee is charged first. So for all the creators that don't raise prices, Patreon is also getting 30% less, because they charge flat fees. And every creator that does raise prices will probably end up with fewer patrons, or patrons donating less, and will probably have a similar effect. It also just kinda harshes everyone's vibe when they eventually realize they're being gypp…

I believe Patreon's fees are a percentage of the total cost. i.e. if the payment is $10 and Patreon takes 10%, they'll still get $1, Apple get's $3, and the creator gets $6.

I'm not sure how Patreon will explain things to their creators, but no matter what the effect will be similar; about 30% less income for Patreon and creators alike.

According to App Store rules, you're not allowed to disclose the App Store fee to users. So Patreon is not allowed to explain to users that 30% is going to Apple, nor to explain that there are other options. I'm not sure if Apple regulates messaging to creators as well.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#989

Post by nomel »

nomel wrote: post #541
daniel_reetz wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget censorship/banning of nude images. The tumblr fiasco (among others) was their doing.

That's not totally true. Twitter/X is fine, in this regard. The toggle is web based, but there's no censorship once it's toggled. The large amount of age restricted content on YouTube, with nudity, is another example.

It appears that people aren't aware that twitters is a porn app, for many users.

Porn is allowed: https://apnews.com/article/x-twitter-musk-porn-adult-content...

And interest in porn is growing: https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/twitter-crypto-pornograph...

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#990

Post by Rapzid »

pimterry wrote: post #880
sod wrote: post #875

When ignoring for a sec. the questionable 30% cut and duopoly: In the age of subscriptions, being able to see all your recurring payments on a single page and cancellable with two tabs without questions asked, is a feature worth paying for.

> In the age of subscriptions, being able to see all your recurring payments on a single page and cancellable with two tabs without questions asked, is a feature worth paying for. This is a service the banking system should clearly provide natively though - there's no good reason Apple is the only one capable of this, nor any good reason why they're best placed for this (there's plenty of non-Apple subscriptions wher…

Yeah they should get together and create a standard protocol for managing, transferring, and paying subscriptions.

Imagine if you could manage subs through your bank, but also transfer the sub to a different bank as needed.

Could even have protocols for payees to verify payer sub status. Maybe there could be two "ends" to a sub; payer and payee end. Like a money wormhole.

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