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'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

aljazeera.com

981–990 of 1001 posts

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#981

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's that supposed bias?

You know what? I went searching just now for examples that I thought could support my argument. But I honestly couldn't find any that really seemed unambiguous or like they couldn't be interpreted in another way. And the ones I had in mind didn't seem like they clearly were arguing for one side of things when I looked at them a second time. So yeah...going to have to walk that particular claim back it seems. But I st…

I didn't see this comment until now, and tmnvix already said it, but I'd like to add some appreciation. It's dismayingly rare to see someone check their view against the data, change their mind, and say so. I guess it's not hard to understand why that is, but it's worth celebrating when someone goes the other way. I wish more of us would.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#982
post #691

One should read (again?) Hannah Arendt and the mechanics of dehumanisation and propaganda in genocides. Beyond the dehumanisation of the victims by the perpetrators, one should not dehumanise the latter in response. There were no monsters. She was recalling that, it was ordinary men killing ordinary men, and ordinary men being killed by ordinary men. And one of these ordinary men could have been your neighbour, or yo…

She was too far ahead of the rest of us. The idea of not dehumanizing the perpetrators is a long way away from mass acceptance.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#983
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not the only point of discussing this topic, and definitely not the point of discussing it here. This follows from HN's core principle* because curiosity and battle can't be active at the same time. I agree with you about this: > everyone who clicks on this will have an opinion that’s not, well, academic let’s say ... but as I've explained elsewhere in this thread, I don't think suppressing the topic outright…

It is clearly a charged topic and while you did a good job setting the tone, it clear that moderating this discussion will be a daunting task for anyone. I am already seeing the antisemitic comments calling Jews colonizers, stealing land from indigenous people for 75 years. The one-liners or single-sentence zingers lack context or, often, truth. I do appreciate comments from people living in that area -- what their l…

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Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#984
post #981

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what? I went searching just now for examples that I thought could support my argument. But I honestly couldn't find any that really seemed unambiguous or like they couldn't be interpreted in another way. And the ones I had in mind didn't seem like they clearly were arguing for one side of things when I looked at them a second time. So yeah...going to have to walk that particular claim back it seems. But I st…

I didn't see this comment until now, and tmnvix already said it, but I'd like to add some appreciation. It's dismayingly rare to see someone check their view against the data, change their mind, and say so. I guess it's not hard to understand why that is, but it's worth celebrating when someone goes the other way. I wish more of us would.

Thanks for the comment. I do appreciate it.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#985

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is clearly a charged topic and while you did a good job setting the tone, it clear that moderating this discussion will be a daunting task for anyone. I am already seeing the antisemitic comments calling Jews colonizers, stealing land from indigenous people for 75 years. The one-liners or single-sentence zingers lack context or, often, truth. I do appreciate comments from people living in that area -- what their l…

[flagged]

This post is barely coherent with a wall of YouTube links pointing to videos across multiple subjects including the settlement policies(which I don’t agree with), claims of poor treatment by released Palestinian prisoners who were in prison for amongst other things stabbing random Jews, as well as other subjects that are all over the place.

Let’s try to have a discussion while focusing on one subject at a time.

One subject that stands out is you calling Jews colonizers.

It’s indisputable that the Jewish history in the area of modern day Israel goes back thousands of years.

These areas were in fact colonized by Romans, then Ottomans, then by the British. Many Jews were expelled during these colonizations.

The act of migration of Jews back to what is present day Israel in 1948 was NOT colonization but a return of indigenous people to their homeland.

Words have meanings. Colonization means something. Jews return to Israel was not it. Apartheid means something. Israeli Arabs enjoy the same rights as non-Arab Israelis, they serve in the government, Supreme Court and even the IDF if they choose to. Israel is not an apartheid state because it does not segregate its citizens by race/ethnicity.

> yes becuse nothing is more important the opions of 19tha nd 20th century white populated countries when it comes to the affairs of people in their coloies

In spite of sounding fairly racist, you are historically correct - opinions of white populated countries - Britain and France - as well as the League of Nations - were in fact important because in 1920s they helped sketch the borders of future Arab nation-states we such as Kingdom of Jordan, Syria, Iraq, etc and ultimately led to emergence of Arab nationalism that shaped these Middle East countries.

If you invalidate UN partition of British Mandate Palestine by saying “oh British people promised to us”, then you will have to invalidate most of Arab Nation states in the Arabian Peninsula. You also invalidate the sovereignty of both India and Pakistan.

> I think it’s best if all the european jews in israel went back to their respective countries.

What about the Mizrahi Israelis of middle eastern & North African origin? They constitute close to 70% of Israeli Jews.

What about non-Mizrahi Jews who were born in Israel and who have no cultural or ethnic connections to European countries you speak of.

What do you propose be done to them.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#986

Sorry, but I can only laugh at Aljazeera, an outlet from Qatar, and Qatar is the main sponsor of Hamas terrorists. It's something close to "crocodile tears", when they show these "tortures" after saluting beheadings of Israelis. If they want to destroy Israel and do ethnic cleansing, why do they keep complaining about being bombed and detained.

Wait, I thought Israel is the main sponsor of Hamas. These guys should get public so we can get a shareholder list.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#987
post #43
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a highly politically charged conflict that’s mainly relevant for being a sort of rhetorical proxy conflict (see all the other conflicts going on that receive a fraction of the attention). The point of discussing this topic is to rhetorically battle. Unlike say, the current civil war in Burma or Sudan, or the Azeri-Armenian war, basically everyone who clicks on this will have an opinion that’s not, well, acade…

That is not the only point of discussing this topic, and definitely not the point of discussing it here. This follows from HN's core principle* because curiosity and battle can't be active at the same time. I agree with you about this: > everyone who clicks on this will have an opinion that’s not, well, academic let’s say ... but as I've explained elsewhere in this thread, I don't think suppressing the topic outright…

The problem is that while al jazeera can be balanced about certain topics, fact is it is entirely government funded by an authoritarian undemocratic state and on this topic in particular it seeks to purposefully take a prejudiced anti Israeli stance. It has also been criticised for biased to the Syrian dictator, and takes various stances according to the foreign ministry. We therefore cannot be certain if the claims are true. Unfortunately as history has repeatedly proven, propaganda works. At the very least maybe source should include Government funded?

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#988

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on what? He's a cynical real politik kind of guy, but I doubt this is how he hoped this would play out. At the end of the day, I believe that his legacy is extremely important to him, and he probably did not want to be remembered as the one in power during one of the worse massacres against Jews since the holocaust. Not to mention that it's highly likely he'll be voted out during the next elections (TBD...)

Based on his policies and character. But, obviously, I don't know for sure. We need to wait 10 - 30 years til people involved starts to write memoirs.

His policy towards Hamas was one of containment and not making a decision, which is classic Netanyahu behavior. I don't know whether or not his biographies agree with this, but this is pretty much the consensus among Israelis. Again, I truly doubt that October 7th is what he was aiming for (happy to change my mind if there is evidence otherwise).

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#989

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is clearly a charged topic and while you did a good job setting the tone, it clear that moderating this discussion will be a daunting task for anyone. I am already seeing the antisemitic comments calling Jews colonizers, stealing land from indigenous people for 75 years. The one-liners or single-sentence zingers lack context or, often, truth. I do appreciate comments from people living in that area -- what their l…

[flagged]

> -> reposting this since my previous one was flagged

You deserve a flag for this behaviour alone.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#990
post #48
post #2

All: if you're going to comment in this thread, please do not do so in the spirit of battle. The latter is off topic here, and the last thread HN had about this did not do well enough at keeping to the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . Instead, ask first whether you can find a place of compassion in yourself before commenting. If you can't, that's understandable, but then please don'…

Thank you, Dang. As someone on the Israeli left I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place- I do not condone Netanyahu and his government and am indeed very critical of Israeli governments of the past decades. But on the other side, my 78 year old mother is fleeing to shelter every couple hours as my hometown (not anywhere near the west bank or the Gaza strip) gets hit by rockets, as do my young nieces and nephe…

It wouldn't just require a change of leaders. It would require an end to apartheid against Palestinians. It would require the colonist settlement of Israel giving back all it's land to the Palestinians. It would require all those involved being brought in front of the ICC for war crimes, genocide and ethnic cleansing.
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