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The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

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Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#981
post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every physical good is a financial asset whether you like it or not. Ignoring this reality will not help achieve policy goals. I agree that you are accurately describing the economically illiterate thought process, just not that it's correct. Price controls are one of those interesting things where there's a phase transition from near-universal support to near-zero support at a certain knowledge level.

Treating everything as nothing more than a financial asset is way too reductive. My point here is that housing is not only a financial asset, and should be treated as more than just a financial asset. Or if you want to take an economic approach here, you need to come up with a utility function that more accurately reflects what we care about—we think that two people who have housing is a better situation than one per…

Thankfully we have a mechanism for working utility-theoretic optimization into economic calculations. The mechanism is called "prices". When you undermine this mechanism, you are not globally utility-maximising.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#982

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What government policy would allow for a 2k apartment building and not a $500 apartment building? I just don't buy this argument. The reason there's not a $500 apartments being built is because by expanding the residence out just a tiny bit you can charge $2000 for the same space that 2 $500 apartments would occupy. I'm seeing this play out where I live that has practically no zoning laws or regulations (LOTS of buil…

You can rent an apartment in Tokyo on a min wage salary. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/11/opinion/editorials/tokyo-... https://resources.realestate.co.jp/rent/tokyo-budget-apartme... Whats their secret? Sane zoning laws created at the federal level that separate industrial use from residential, but don't segregate humans based on race or class.

Or, you know, a shrinking population. It turns out the “demand” part of supply and demand is equally important, as Canada is now realizing.

If only people could point that out in the US without being accused of racism.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#983
post #914

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absolute floor is pretty low, and the market will provide these solutions if they're not regulated out of existence. My first "apartment" was a 100 square foot bedroom rented in a 4 bed / 2 bath unit with 3 other residents. At the time I moved in, it was only $350/month plus utilities, in a market where the median rent for a studio was $1750/month. That room would have been affordable for a single person working…

> My first "apartment" was a 100 square foot bedroom rented in a 4 bed / 2 bath unit with 3 other residents. That's called having roommates, why do call it not code compliant? It's done all the time.

Each room was rented individually from the landlord, so we were legally separate tenants, not just roommates all on the same lease.

The building itself was over a hundred years old, and had countless violations of modern building codes, health codes, and fire safety codes. It was pretty much a disaster waiting to happen, but it was affordable!

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#984

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you consider that everyone might have been making a mistake when they equated taking on large loans with getting out of poverty?

I consider a society in which people are not given sufficient information to make intelligent choices for the future to be pretty dystopian.

Are you able to do arithmetic?

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#986
post #965

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people are specific, but it's a HUGE set of laws, and they're slightly different in different places. Like if someone says to you "supply restrictions due to single family zoning", someone else will say "Well Houston doesn't have that", but Houston allows you to sue your neighbor if they cast a shadow on your property, so it's a different method that gets to the same result.

Outside of a few Major cities, I’ve never seen these laws. Is it a boogie man? Where I live, the developers rule.

There is no city in the United States, large or small, aware these rules do not exist. Tell me what city, I’ll show you the code.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#987

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If rent has gone up faster than inflation it just means that demand has increased or supply has decreased in that time. Not quite. Landlords have the ability to fake demand in order to raise prices. One of the ways they do so is by leaving units intentionally empty (as they've done in NYC), which artificially restrains supply and allows them to raise prices on the units they own much higher than they'd normally be i…

How is that going to make them money? They would have to withdraw enough units to raise the market price across an entire city -- and forego the rent on all of those. That kind of thing only makes sense if the city is imposing some kind of rent control or similar so they can't rent them out for the market rate and start getting weird incentives for rich people accounting chicanery.

It makes them money because if you pay attention, apartment prices almost never fall nowadays. They always gradually go up. In a market where supply is constantly being added to meet demand, you would expect costs to go down in cities where people are leaving. For example, NYC's population has remained relatively static or even gone down, but the rent prices sharply go up, far more than inflation.

Keep in mind the majority of the value is in the property too, not the amount made from rent. They can effectively sit on the property and still grow value, then withhold apartments in order to either force legislative changes or force rent to go up. The loss of value from leaving those apartments empty is less than the gain in value from being able to raise rent, which results in perverse incentives.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#989

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that going to make them money? They would have to withdraw enough units to raise the market price across an entire city -- and forego the rent on all of those. That kind of thing only makes sense if the city is imposing some kind of rent control or similar so they can't rent them out for the market rate and start getting weird incentives for rich people accounting chicanery.

It makes them money because if you pay attention, apartment prices almost never fall nowadays. They always gradually go up. In a market where supply is constantly being added to meet demand, you would expect costs to go down in cities where people are leaving. For example, NYC's population has remained relatively static or even gone down, but the rent prices sharply go up, far more than inflation. Keep in mind the ma…

> In a market where supply is constantly being added to meet demand, you would expect costs to go down in cities where people are leaving.

Sufficient supply is not being added to meet demand -- that's why prices keep going up.

> For example, NYC's population has remained relatively static or even gone down, but the rent prices sharply go up, far more than inflation.

NYC's population grows by about 0.3% every year:

https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/23083/new-york-city/popul...

COVID was an outlier for the obvious reason, during which it dropped by Meanwhile the city has added less than that amount of net housing with the obvious result.

The housing market is also in a very weird state right now, because the fed raised interest rates, which long-term lowers housing prices by making it harder to borrow for a mortgage. But because the lesson people took from 2008 was to get a fixed-rate mortgage, now most existing owners have below-market mortgage rates and can't move without taking out a new mortgage at the higher rate, so they stay put, which means there is no inventory on the market and anyone trying to buy has to be desperate enough to outbid anyone else for the scarce inventory. But that can't last forever because eventually people will either be forced to move for any of the usual reasons or will have paid off enough of their existing mortgage for this to be less relevant -- or interest rates will go back down. Which, counter-intuitively, could actually lower housing prices by increasing inventory, especially because by then there would be pent-up demand for sellers to be able to move.

There is also some uncertainty in the stock market -- it had pretty much been on a bull run since right after the crash in 2008 until COVID but post-COVID has been a rollercoaster -- so you have a lot of investors looking to diversify and buying up real estate. Which they might be stupid to do because housing prices are crazy -- look at this graph and realize that 2007 was a massive housing bubble:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=kYEb

> Keep in mind the majority of the value is in the property too, not the amount made from rent.

They still get that whether they rent it out or not. It's like saying well, I could get a 9% return from this investment, but if I refuse to rent it out then I'd still get a 5% return, so let me do that and set the rest of this money on fire for no personal benefit.

> then withhold apartments in order to either force legislative changes or force rent to go up.

But this is the part that makes no sense. To be profitable, you not renting out a subset of your units would have to make the rents on the other units (i.e. rents city-wide) go up by more than the entire amount of the rent on the units you withheld. How are they going to do that? The largest real estate investor in NYC owns far less than 1% of the real estate.

For that to make sense would require some enormous disadvantage to actually renting out those units, like rent control or laws that make it hard to evict destructive or non-paying tenants. Because that would make renting the units a significant risk to your investment, since a buyer wouldn't pay full price for a building full of tenants paying below-market rent or trashing the building who can't be removed.

But then the cause of the rent-increasing behavior is the inept laws that increase the cost of providing rental units by so much that it's not even profitable to do it when they're already built, and the solution is to remove the laws creating the perverse incentives.

Self-serving politicians like to take offense when investors respond in predictable ways to toxic laws, but umbrage doesn't lower the rent.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#990
post #824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the rail comes every 15 minutes, you know you can plan to be a little early. Not hard at all.

True for subway. But not for longer distance/inter-city.

Maybe, I took an IC to get to school and it went from a village to a city center, so its possible, otherwise light rail the the norm. I figured out that if I got off at a certain stop, I could shave 15 minutes off my commute by switching to light rail from the IC. That took a couple tries to get timed out right to make the transfer.
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