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Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

darrellowens.substack.com

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Re: Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

#981

Post by throw0101a »

chrisco255 wrote: post #653
throw0101a wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't it possible that people who live in beautiful neighborhoods with mature trees, nice big yards, and low traffic streets that are safe for kids to play around Basically how things were built pre-WW2? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWsGBRdK2N0&t=68s The Oh the Urbanity channel has a video on the (misguided) idea that "urban living" = Manhattan / Hong Kong apart…

> Basically how things were built pre-WW2? The majority of America was not some idyllic "streetcar suburb" even pre WWII. Majority of it was either grid based urban development or rural residential / agriculture in large plots (often 20, 40, 80, 160, 320, 640 acre plots). https://web.archive.org/web/20131108174122/http://www.thegre... As agriculture got more efficient, and raising food for ones self became less commo…

I grew up in a house built in the 1890s (with residual pipes for gas lighting because electricity hadn't been "invented" yet). It was designed to be with-in walking distance of retail and streetcars/trams/trolleys, because the car had not been invented yet. Grid layout pre-dates the automobile:

* http://oldtorontomaps.blogspot.com/p/index-of-maps.html

There's nothing "natural" about car-centric design and giving priority to cars:

* https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262516129/fighting-traffic/

It's a policy choice, one which (e.g.) the Dutch started moving away from in the late 1970s:

* https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/may/05/amsterdam-bic...

* https://inkspire.org/post/amsterdam-was-a-car-loving-city-in...

Jane Jacobs wrote The Death and Life of Great American Cities in 1961:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_and_Life_of_Great_Am...

The book Crabgrass Frontier was published in 1985:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crabgrass_Frontier

The Geography of Nowhere was published in 1993:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geography_of_Nowhere

We've know for decades about the consequences of sprawl.

Re: Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

#982

Post by adrr »

enaaem wrote: post #876
adrr wrote: post #782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that work? Property tax is by city and suburbs are their own cities. For example, my city has implemented has implemented a Mello-Roos for new developments to fund new schools.

https://youtu.be/7Nw6qyyrTeI

Cherry picking cities can show anything. Let's look at SF compared to suburbs like Palo Alto. Separate cities with their own budgets and SF has one the highest tax revenues per resident in the US but since SF has high density and lacks of car access goes up, costs explode including labor. SF average city employee salary is $180k. SF infrastructure is below palo alto. Palo alto has better streets, better schools, better maintained parks even with standford paying no property taxes.

You can see also see this in New York.

Re: Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

#983

Post by JAlexoid »

TimPC wrote: post #756
JAlexoid wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dealing with HOAs is actually easier - transfer all infrastructure ownership and maintenance to them... you'll see some big changes real fast. Like treat HOA as a commercial entity for purposes of trash, water and sewage. (HOAs are, de facto, incorporated organizations). Tax land under the roads as plain land. As for localities - they should be mandated to reassess property values every X years and distribute infrast…

This is the dumbest idea I’ve heard. You’ll end up with people paying $0 for infra for 70 years then suddenly having to buy multimillion dollar projects with no cash reserves. The net result will be widespread chaos and huge social pressure on government to bail out badly managed HOAs.

Chaos for badly managed HOAs, that will have to be dissolved and the property transferred to municipal control... disbanding bad HOAs and leaving properly managed HOAs.

I didn't mention that bad HOAs should definitely have the option to not have to pony up... However, suburban homes have to get their taxes ramped up, because they are unsustainable at current levels.

Re: Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

#984

Post by JAlexoid »

throw0101a wrote: post #981
chrisco255 wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically how things were built pre-WW2? The majority of America was not some idyllic "streetcar suburb" even pre WWII. Majority of it was either grid based urban development or rural residential / agriculture in large plots (often 20, 40, 80, 160, 320, 640 acre plots). https://web.archive.org/web/20131108174122/http://www.thegre... As agriculture got more efficient, and raising food for ones self became less commo…

I grew up in a house built in the 1890s (with residual pipes for gas lighting because electricity hadn't been "invented" yet). It was designed to be with-in walking distance of retail and streetcars/trams/trolleys, because the car had not been invented yet. Grid layout pre-dates the automobile: * http://oldtorontomaps.blogspot.com/p/index-of-maps.html There's nothing "natural" about car-centric design and giving prio…

Not to mention that many places in US actively oppose or outright ban mixed use developments. (commercial lower levels, with residential on top)

Re: Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

#985

Post by JAlexoid »

zzzeek wrote: post #693
jackson1442 wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have all this (and more!) in cities as well. Lived in Seattle for a bit and my apartment had several neighborhoods of single-family homes within a couple blocks: each with mature trees, yards, and low traffic streets. Sure, the yard maybe isn't as massive as you can get in a suburb, but there's still plenty of space (and far more public parks). Because they were so close to dense housing, they also had the ad…

I dont like noise, light pollution, or crowds. I'd like nighttime to be silent and pitch dark, and the daytime to be mostly silent as well. I go on trips and need to be able to load lots of stuff in and out of "my" or "a" car without living in terror of all of my stuff getting stolen while I'm inside. Where should I live? Note: I lived in three different boroughs of NYC for 25 years

Live in a rural area. Move to Adirondacks, you'll have to drive everywhere - but there's little to no noise and so little light pollution, that you can see the Milky Way.

We moved from Williamsburg to Cornwall(NY). We live in a rural area and there's a tonne of noise(interstate traffic is audible from 5+ miles away) and light pollution(Hudson Valley light pollution is high).

Re: Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

#986

Post by hnburnsy »

jimmydddd wrote: post #965
hnburnsy wrote: post #824

> deed-restricted for low income households How does this work for resales? Do them limit what the owner can sell for or to who the owner can sell to?

In NJ, an interesting point is that the owner can only get back roughly the original price of the house when they sell. So it's sort of a double-edged sword as sure, they get to buy and live in a home, but they can't reap the benefits of increased real estate values, which would otherwise be a great benefit for a low income family.

Never heard of that are the restrictions permanent?

Re: Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

#987

Post by cudgy »

gumby wrote: post #602
mateo411 wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Basically, shows that the State's tax difficulties are themselves the consequence of exclusion. I'm not sure what you mean by tax difficulties, if you mean the state has trouble raising revenue, that's certainly not the case. CA is running a large budget surplus right now. If they only relied on property tax it could be an issue, but they also have an income tax, so the revenue outlook in CA is pretty good right now…

Fari enough: let me clarify. Because California gets so little tax from property, it must get more from income taxes. That has a couple of negative consequences. The nice thing about property taxes is that housing prices change slowly, even in boom/bust cycles -- essentially they are coupled to a dashpot. While income, especially in California with a progressive system coupled with most of the high earners paying cap…

“On average, state and local governments collected $1,617 per capita in property taxes nationwide in FY 2017”

https://taxfoundation.org/state-property-taxes-per-capita-20...

California property taxes for $1620 per capita, which is average. How does this translate to “so little tax from property”?

Re: Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

#988

Post by cudgy »

jldugger wrote: post #427
jedberg wrote: post #127

There is a developer in Cupertino who has been fighting with the city for years, who got awfully quiet lately. Now I know why. I suspect they have a plan for an absolutely massive high rise behind my house that they will be submitting at 8am tomorrow morning. My neighbors are going to be pissed .

Interest rates are super high right now, so you might get some reprieve in the short term. They'll probably slow play Vallco until rates come down, doing just enough to keep their zoning exemption?

Rates are higher relative to last 10 years or so, but historically they are not “super high”.

https://www.valuepenguin.com/mortgages/historical-mortgage-r...

Re: Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

#989

Post by gumby »

cudgy wrote: post #987
gumby wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fari enough: let me clarify. Because California gets so little tax from property, it must get more from income taxes. That has a couple of negative consequences. The nice thing about property taxes is that housing prices change slowly, even in boom/bust cycles -- essentially they are coupled to a dashpot. While income, especially in California with a progressive system coupled with most of the high earners paying cap…

“On average, state and local governments collected $1,617 per capita in property taxes nationwide in FY 2017” https://taxfoundation.org/state-property-taxes-per-capita-20... California property taxes for $1620 per capita, which is average. How does this translate to “so little tax from property”?

As a proportion of net state product it’s property taxes are low. Compared to most other states, California provides a lot of services and looks after a lot of land (has a lot of thinly-settled land — people there need services too). It’s a major net contributor to the federal budget.

It should have a better mix of tax sources.

Remember the size of the state’s economy and population would make it one of the large EU countries.

Re: Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

#990

Post by gumby »

steveklabnik wrote: post #768
gumby wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fari enough: let me clarify. Because California gets so little tax from property, it must get more from income taxes. That has a couple of negative consequences. The nice thing about property taxes is that housing prices change slowly, even in boom/bust cycles -- essentially they are coupled to a dashpot. While income, especially in California with a progressive system coupled with most of the high earners paying cap…

Funny enough, Texas is basically the opposite: there's no income tax, and so it has to get taxes from property. That also has a couple of negative consequences: There's a "homesteading exemption" for taxes on a primary residence. This means your property taxes can't shoot up massively if your property suddenly gets more expensive. This pushes even more of the property tax burden onto investment properties, which soun…

Yeah, these lopsided systems have drawbacks!
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