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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#981

Post by theshrike79 »

hoorible wrote: post #973
cudgy wrote: post #866

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not buying this overall. Large groups typically order more alcoholic drinks while they are spending more time, which is hugely profitable for restaurants. Also, the more waiters argument doesn’t hold when there are more people/tables. I agree that bringing out more food at the same time is more effort, but this is not insurmountable. It’s basically a grift to get more money from the suckling pigs of wedding parti…

Sounds like you’ve never waited tables! Two-tops are the best for earnings, both for the restaurant and the server. Easier for a charismatic career server to separately charm three couples on dates than a single table of six all at once. And higher turnover is better for revenue. 1-on-1 business meeting? They’ve got work to do. Couples on dates? They’ve got fucking to do. Smaller parties -> faster turnover -> more mo…

> Easier for a charismatic career server to separately charm three couples on dates than a single table of six all at once.

As an European from a non-tipping country this sounds really horrific to me. So you actively need to "charm/seduce" people into giving you larger tips to make over minimum wage?

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#982

Post by mito88 »

peteforde wrote: post #518
grecy wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Australian, living in Canada for 10 years, just went back to Australia for 18 months, now back in Canada. I have some experience here. I love not tipping, and for me personally, the service in Australia is perfectly fine. I took my (Canadian) partner to Australia (her first time there). For her, the service was nowhere even remotely close to that of Canada. In Australia, someone might take your order (or you orde…

I had to read this a few times to make sure that, yes, you are actually implying that service in Canada is somehow particularly great. I've lived here all of my life, but traveled very extensively. I would give the typical Canadian service interaction a neutral pass; they aren't openly rude, nor are they offering to wash my car. Where are you going to eat that someone taking your order, bringing it to you and checkin…

you haven´t lived here all of your life, yet....

:)

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#983

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

Larrikin wrote: post #375
expensive_news wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat of a meta-comment but I’m shocked at how many people are complaining about you not taking cash. Has anyone ever walked out of your coffee shop because they only had cash on them? I can’t remember the last time I paid or even saw someone pay cash for anything.

Cities are making it illegal, as they should. It's not always meant in bad faith, but it's also a form of gentrification that hurts the poor and unbanked by removing yet another service from them. https://www.nssh.com/2020/04/philadelphias-ban-on-cashless-s... I personally never use anything but cards since I have many of the high reward credit cards. But I've also had family members with tax liens or other problems…

> hurts the poor and unbanked by removing yet another service from them.

There are plenty of much poorer countries where cash has pretty much died out.

Imagine driving along in some mountainous, rural area in China. You stop at a little roadside shop in the middle of nowhere. You pull out your paper Renminbi bills to pay, and the shopkeeper looks at you like you're crazy. Everyone uses their smartphone to pay for everything, and yes, everyone has a smartphone.

If it's possible to transition entirely to digital payment in a country that was part of the Third World just one generation ago, it should be possible in the US.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#984

Post by courgette »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #922
courgette wrote: post #812

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question : how do you think it works literally anywhere outside of Canada and the US? We have bar and restaurants, too. People working there have kids, mortgage. I would even say that it’s more a “real” job than in the US. “Real”, in the sense that, in the US, I’ve seen friends in their 40’s switching industry because they want to have kids. While for instance in France their is actual school you go to before…

> how do you think it works literally anywhere outside of Canada and the US? Being 100% honest, I was of the opinion that because of tipping in America, waiters/waitresses stand a chance to make $150-$300+ whereas in Europe, you probably make less than that.

What do you mean "$150-$300", net, a day ? Yah. No.

You checked for France on the statistical bureau website ( INSEE )

Average Net salary is 1558 euros / month, calculated from 196k salaries. Figures are from 2021.

With that you get unemployment, retirement and healthcare. It can be considered "play money" if you are sorta careless.

Not great, but you can definitely lives on that and find lodging. ( In Paris that will be a flatshare )

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#985

Post by courgette »

ciupicri wrote: post #925
courgette wrote: post #791

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the tax being calculated separately seems suspiciously petty to my French ass. I’m used to it now, but the only rational I could find by asking around “why is the tax not part of the final displayed price” were : - “it depends from state to state.” Taxes are also different in Spain, France, Germany and Italy … we use the same currency and we don’t feel the urge to display our taxes by removing them from the displayed…

American taxes vary way more than in Europe. You walk a mile to a nearby town and suddenly it's a different tax. Not by much, it's like less than one percent, but still.

Taxes can varies from counties to counties? Ha, I never noticed that.

Kinda goes to show that it's not helping to display them like that.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#986

Post by snowflakeandrey »

jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

Compared to US tipped-staff service, non-tipped staff in Japan seem a lot more genuine in their desire to help. It seems a matter of culture and professional pride to be provide excellent service, which leads to a significantly more thorough experience -- being that nice in the context of a tip would seem pushy and awkward.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#987

Post by shostack »

n8henrie wrote: post #893
shostack wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget: - Asking for a tip for takeout orders - Asking for the payment including tip before you've received service, often via one of those stupid QR menus that does who knows what with your order data that is now tied to your phone - Not having 20% as a tip option, but something like 18%, 23%, 27% - Looming over your shoulder while you enter the tip I want servers to make a livable wage. I'm willing to pay mor…

Thinking about your comment on QR codes -- If memory serves its not difficult on iOS to set something up to display the QR code data as text instead of acting on it. I assume it's similarly opaque to use a URL for the same purpose, which would almost certainly be a "enter your phone / email so we can send you your URL...". In your opinion, assuming electronic ordering, what is the best alternative to a QR code when c…

An analog fallback via paper menu. If I'm doing sit down ordering, I don't want to order electronically unless you give me an ipad. And I don't want to pay until the meal is over. Period.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#988

Post by shostack »

deanCommie wrote: post #960
shostack wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget: - Asking for a tip for takeout orders - Asking for the payment including tip before you've received service, often via one of those stupid QR menus that does who knows what with your order data that is now tied to your phone - Not having 20% as a tip option, but something like 18%, 23%, 27% - Looming over your shoulder while you enter the tip I want servers to make a livable wage. I'm willing to pay mor…

> - Looming over your shoulder while you enter the tip I'm with you on the rest, but I find this one dramatically exaggerated by a certain type of person. If you're paying by card, the server is going to be around, waiting for you to finish so they can give you a copy of the receipt. I find that there is a certain type of person will always describe this as "looming" or "guilted" or feel "social pressure". Your feeli…

You should avoid characterizing someone as "a certain type of person." Especially an internet stranger that you do not know in the least.

I have encountered plenty of servers who hand you the card reader, step back, turn around, whatever, then take it when you're done and walk away. Zero issues. That has been fine.

I have likewise encountered overly pushy servers, often those who knew they did a less than stellar job, who literally stood over my shoulder looking at the screen, pointing over my shoulder saying "and here's where you can enter the tip." That sure as hell is creating a sense of "looming" and "guilt" and "social pressure" (if not physical pressure). I've likewise encountered servers who deliver less than stellar service who complained quite vocally when I dared to leave a 15% tip (they should probably have received 0%).

Don't mistake your personal experiences for those of others. Don't presume how you feel about social encounters is how others should feel or shame them when they don't align with your world view.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#989

Post by zeekerbeek »

jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

There is a brewery in my town that does the same thing. They do accept cash and any "tips" (which is any amount over the total) goes to their charity of the month. On their cc entry system, its never shown to the customer so there is never that awkward tipping part you see on a lot of POS systems now. If the customer asks, they say that they don't take tips and if they'd like to leave one in cash, it will all go towards their charity that month.

By doing this, they appease the customer who wants to leave one and don't get in a back and forth with them over tips.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#990

Post by n8henrie »

shostack wrote: post #987
n8henrie wrote: post #893

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinking about your comment on QR codes -- If memory serves its not difficult on iOS to set something up to display the QR code data as text instead of acting on it. I assume it's similarly opaque to use a URL for the same purpose, which would almost certainly be a "enter your phone / email so we can send you your URL...". In your opinion, assuming electronic ordering, what is the best alternative to a QR code when c…

An analog fallback via paper menu. If I'm doing sit down ordering, I don't want to order electronically unless you give me an ipad. And I don't want to pay until the meal is over. Period.

So "assuming electronic ordering" your suggestion is for them to provide a device. That makes sense.
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