I wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole so good riddance
Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries
981–990 of 1001 posts
Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries
#982Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If the companies can get their products to taste about the same as meat, and have about the same nutritional value, while being cheaper, we can eliminate enormous amounts of habitual meat consumption. Habitual meat eater here. I will never ever trust these products to be right for my body the way meat is. Humans haven’t nailed it in the past with heavily processed foods, why would it suddenly work now? I understand…
This seems like a bonkers thing to claim. You're suggesting that if someone gave you two burgers that tasted identical, one that was real meat and costs £5, and the other that was fake and costs £2, if they were other than that TOTALLY IDENTICAL (other than the fake one being better for the planet), you'd still feel the need to eat the real one? For some sense of perceived...offence?
I wish I could get $5 fake meat that tasted real for $2. Right now the options are real $10, fake and substantially not as a good, $10 or $12.
Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries
#983Earlier quoted context omitted.
I see you are being downvoted, but I know exactly what you mean. When I eat Impossible and especially Beyond burgers, my stomach feels slightly off. A bit of indigestion. I don't get this with typical veggie patties.
Beyond/Incredible meat is awful. There's no other description for it. This highly processed fake meat is not healthy. Just eat meat, or don't if you don't want to. There's no need for this fake garbage.
I'm a heavy meat eater, and I actually kinda liked the impossible whopper.
More importantly, while I like the taste of meat too much to give up on it, I would also very much prefer that it could be had without killing animals. I don't think plant-based meat is going to be the ultimate solution to this - more likely, it'll be the lab-grown stuff. But, either way, it requires investments from the food industry to reach maturity, and those won't happen unless there's a real customer interest. Buying fake-meat burger is a way to express that interest.
Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries
#984Earlier quoted context omitted.
Probably because the beyond/impossible offerings sell more and they're only willing to put a limited number of vegetarian items on the menu so the others are crowded out.
That has to be temporary and due to novelty. I’ve never understood the “pretend meat” category. Lots of vegetarian food tastes amazing and is good for you. It doesn’t have to pretend. It’s like over-boiling broccoli and covering it in cheese sauce: easier for broccoli-haters to eat, but totally missing the point.
Some of us actually like the meat taste, and this is orthogonal to the ethics of it.
Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries
#985Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The thing is, vegetarian food is incredible without needing to taste like meat. You are not the target group for these products! The whole point of these products is to replace meat for habitual meat eaters. If the companies can get their products to taste about the same as meat, and have about the same nutritional value, while being cheaper , we can eliminate enormous amounts of habitual meat consumption. That's t…
> If the companies can get their products to taste about the same as meat, and have about the same nutritional value, while being cheaper, we can eliminate enormous amounts of habitual meat consumption. Habitual meat eater here. I will never ever trust these products to be right for my body the way meat is. Humans haven’t nailed it in the past with heavily processed foods, why would it suddenly work now? I understand…
Humans weren't originally growing meat to eat, either. We were catching it - which puts an upper limit on both the amount of the meat eaten, and on how fatty that meat it.
Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries
#986Earlier quoted context omitted.
Consuming a lot of heme iron is proven to be bad for the heart. Red meat contains heme iron in great amounts. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23708150/
Epidemiologic nutritional studies are proven to be totally useless. They literally are a questionnaire asking people what do they eat, take some health markers and drawing conclusions. I spent the morning reading through the data of that "plant-based diets reduce colorectal cancer" on the front-page of the Guardian [1], and it's yet another pile of cherry picked inconclusive crap people will keep sharing on social me…
people who had less than 4% elevated risk composed 2.5% of the group, and people who had over 67% elevated risk composed 2.5% of the group
if normally distributed, two thirds would have elevated risk between 14% and 48%
that is to say, almost everyone has an elevated risk - so I have no idea why you are complaining about confidence intervals
Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries
#987Earlier quoted context omitted.
Consuming a lot of heme iron is proven to be bad for the heart. Red meat contains heme iron in great amounts. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23708150/
Consuming a lot of TMAO is proven to be bad for the heart. Cod contains TMAO in great amounts. Yet white fish is one of the most recommended heart healthy foods. You have to be careful when talking about specific mechanisms in terms of Whole Foods. Nutrition can't be reduced down to single mechanisms to provide confident recommendations, and often times results are the opposite of what we would expect mechanistically…
it also has EPA and DHEA, so it's possible those offset the effects of too much iron
also, it's still lower than red meat, it's on the order of white meat
if you want an iron-rich fish you'd have to go up to bluefin tuna, which does have a red tint to its meat
Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries
#988Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You're saying that vegetarians don't know this? Arguably some don't. Read again: some .
Sure, some people of every ilk are likely to be uninformed about some aspect of the world or the other. How does that apply in the current context? Most meals for most people worldwide are essentially vegetarian, even if the people are not obligate vegetarians. Are there some vegetarians unfamiliar with the reality of practically all world cuisines? Sure - and? Impossible meats aren't directed towards these people, a…
> Sure, some people of every ilk are likely to be uninformed about some aspect of the world or the other
I am absolutely not claiming that, I am absolutely claiming that beliefs based on feelings and not hard truths tend to reject rational arguments, hence their members are usually not the most curious people around and it's common they ignore things that are obvious to the rest of us.
Take a western vegetarian, we all know a few of them and some vegan too.
Most vegetarians/vegan inform themselves in vegetarian communities, which are based on the same western principles where they were born, mainly North America.
Most vegetarian communities are based on spurious correlations, like the fact that 80% of people from India are Hinduists, a religion that promotes a lacto-vegetarian diet letting people believe that 80% of Indians are vegetarians, which is obviously completely false.
Christianity promotes a mostly vegetarian diet too, there's a list of food that you should not consume on certain days, nobody follows those prescriptions anymore, they are thousands years old and come from the Jewish traditions.
But if I say that 30% of the World population is Christian, a religion that promotes a mostly vegetarian diet, things sound completely different.
Don't also forget that in vegetarian circles meat is the root cause of everything bad: from cancer[1] to diabetes[2], deforestation[3], being overweight [4], depression[5] and even infertility[6] (yes, you heard right!)
All these claims have been either debunked, highly exaggerated or correlated when there is no factual evidence. Yet they resist in the narrative of these communities, like the idea that Christ died on a cross and then came back to life 3 days later. It's false, we know it is, but people still believe it and there's nothing we can do about it.
It's easy to understand the stigma that these manipulatory lies can create around "traditional food", these people often think of themselves as revolutionary going against the status quo, so their enemy are their local traditions, not just the meat (everyone eats some meat around them, so it must be "the others their ways and they do not see it").
So they end up eating a lot of food that is not local nor traditional (tradition equals bad, remember?), such as tofu, that in Italy is totally not traditional nor commonly used, yet most vegetarians and vegans rely on it.
The reason why?
Vegetarianism in the west is a business, if you can sell the dirty cheap tofu at 5-10 euros/kg (that's the price in Italy) while poultry costs 3-5 euros/kg (raw, raised on the ground and antibiotic free) you can understand how convenient it is to sell people the idea that you need to eat tofu instead of pasta with tomato sauce (1-1.5 euros/kg), you are in for the big bucks.
Don't dismiss what I say just because you disagree, I've researched the topic a lot, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
> Most meals for most people worldwide are essentially vegetarian, even if the people are not obligate vegetarians
Sooner or later people in the west will understand that there are people among us priding themselves for not eating meat while our pets, for example cats, every year eat 10 times the meat an average central African person has to eat, suffering the horrendous consequences of malnutrition, like watching their children die of hunger or curable disease that their bodies weakened by the forced plant based diet hadn't the strength to fight, and we don't see a problem with that.
The irony is that those people are in developing countries, they are developing, they will eventually eat more meat, no way they will keep dying for a made up belief, for those who care about animal suffering I have an advice: renounce to pets. They eat too much meat, they kill too many animals, they are not sustainable.
[1] https://thetruthaboutcancer.com/cancer-causing-foods-2/
[2] https://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/diabetes/
[3] https://thehumaneleague.org/article/meat-industry-deforestat...
[4] https://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/obesity/
[5] https://psychcentral.com/depression/foods-that-cause-depress...
[6] https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/foods-to-avoid-when-try...
Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries
#989Earlier quoted context omitted.
> what is it? The meat pie is the (unofficial) national dish of Australia. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat_pie_(Australia_and_New_...
I wasn't referring to that, so apologies if that sounded offensive, I thought I was making something up. Elsewhere though, unless presented as intending to be a specific thing from down under, 'meat pie' is a lot less appetising than 'steak and kidney pie' or whatever, because who wants mystery meat (implicitly perhaps the cheapest odds and ends available). Similarly though to be fair 'fish pie' in the UK & France at…
You're good, I understood what you meant. Just trying to spread the joy that is the Aussie meat pie!
Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries
#990Earlier quoted context omitted.
No added sugar peanut butter is not really a high quality protein source that can substitute for meat, not to mention there are doubts about the health of seed oils (peanuts may or may not be included here) and high omega 6.
You're right, but I can put up with eating a lot of it for long periods on end and it gets me through. I'm open to other suggestions of similar price/effort/tastiness with a better protein & nutrition profile. As long as it's not crazy processed.
Beans and rice, or tofu.
Buy whole chicken when it’s on sale, if you have a freezer you can stock up and break it down into pieces in advance.
A 4oz piece of chicken probably gives a better combination of amino acids than many servings of peanut butter.
Edit: actually I looked it up and peanuts are a decent source of protein, the issues are possibly omega6 and getting peanut butter without added sugar or oil, you should be able to find peanut butter with just peanuts and salt as ingredients.