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Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

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Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#981

Post by abledon »

eloisius wrote: post #921
gorwell wrote: post #912

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the real danger of the administrative state. Arresting you requires actual police officers to go out and physically do the act of arresting you. The bureaucratic state can freeze your bank account, revoke your license, and shut down your life, all remotely. And now they've set precedent for future protests. I don't know how anyone who considers themselves a liberal or Leftist can support this.

Exactly what's bothering me about this. I think you should get vaccinated. I think most of these truckers probably have very stupid reasons for not wanting to get vaccinated. But how can it not scare you to see the government wield power against demonstrations like this? Next time we're protesting an oil pipeline, what's to stop them from saying that these protests jeopardize Canada's energy security; It's disrupting…

well, if some protestors are causing 50 million in lost business per day, its a cause for concern. US keeps their stuff local, built in USA, and Canadas economy and trade relations become weaker with its neighbour to the south

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#982

Post by hindsightbias »

southerntofu wrote: post #947
hindsightbias wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Occupy Wall Street did not do a lot of shutdowns, they quickly migrated marches to sidewalks and sit downs to public spaces to the consternation of nypd. The reason they fizzled is they had absolutely zero marketing experience. When they finally got down to listing their demands, it was a 43 point manifesto from save the penquins to truther investigations. BLM really didn’t get anywhere (they initially had a ~14 poin…

The reason Occupy failed is not because of marketing, it's because they were not organized to face the raw powers of the State protecting Wall Street moguls. By peacefully demonstrating on sidewalks, you're not having any meaningful impact and you're not being heard. Someone in this thread mentioned "civil disobedience" movements. Studying the history of such movements (anti-apartheid politics, workers movements, wom…

So another conspiracy theory. OWS went on for months, was a top story for months. They had a megaphone for months and the media ate it up.

They flopped because they had no plan. Even today, you can’t come up with any concrete thing/legislation they wanted.

The masters of Wall Street didn’t have to lift a finger.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#983

Post by odonnellryan »

rmbyrro wrote: post #867
_clhx wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech ends IMO when people can't sleep or enjoy the city they live in for a very extended time b/c of the 24/7 honking. I am all for demonstrating, but I think it is a little ridiculous what they are doing.

I think it's worth looking for a common ground that accommodates free speech and sleeping? My personal opinion: your threshold to kill free speech is way, WAY too low.

You can demonstrate without keeping people up all night for weeks.

If that is the only type of demonstration that gets your point across, ok, but I seriously doubt that is the case.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#984

Post by john_petrucci »

makomk wrote: post #24

Headline on the front page of BBC News right now: "Trudeau vows to freeze anti-mandate protesters' bank accounts" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60383385 This feels downright dystopian, especially if the move away from cash and towards centrally-controlled electronic payment systems is anywhere near as widespread in Canada as elsewhere.

[dead]

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#985

Post by _clhx »

sbalea wrote: post #962
rmbyrro wrote: post #867

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's worth looking for a common ground that accommodates free speech and sleeping? My personal opinion: your threshold to kill free speech is way, WAY too low.

I don't think you understand the concept of free speech. It allows you the right to express your opinion without fear of government oppression. It does not allow you to yell your opinion through a megaphone, in front of my house, at all hours of day and night.

Yeah I don't understand how people don't understand this. If I were to go outside your house and lay on my horn for a few days I'd expect to get arrested.

Free speech has nothing to do with it.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#986

Post by odonnellryan »

gatlin wrote: post #946
_clhx wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech ends IMO when people can't sleep or enjoy the city they live in for a very extended time b/c of the 24/7 honking. I am all for demonstrating, but I think it is a little ridiculous what they are doing.

That's the entire point: to force you to see a problem they feel is ignored. Go tell them your feelings on free speech, I'm sure they'll listen.

I'm all for demonstrating, but if you're outside people's houses it's more than demonstrating I think.

I don't have the right to go lay on my horn outside your house, and for good reason.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#987

Post by justnotworthit »

eloisius wrote: post #921
gorwell wrote: post #912

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the real danger of the administrative state. Arresting you requires actual police officers to go out and physically do the act of arresting you. The bureaucratic state can freeze your bank account, revoke your license, and shut down your life, all remotely. And now they've set precedent for future protests. I don't know how anyone who considers themselves a liberal or Leftist can support this.

Exactly what's bothering me about this. I think you should get vaccinated. I think most of these truckers probably have very stupid reasons for not wanting to get vaccinated. But how can it not scare you to see the government wield power against demonstrations like this? Next time we're protesting an oil pipeline, what's to stop them from saying that these protests jeopardize Canada's energy security; It's disrupting…

Truckers (in general, according to published data) are over 90% voluntarily vaccinated; that's more than the general population.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#988

Post by canucker2016 »

ckdarby wrote: post #961
canucker2016 wrote: post #934

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ottawa police haven't been able to get any towing companies to come in and tow away any of the heavy trucks. From the articles I've read, the trucks at the border crossing were lighter pickup trucks, which can be towed away with regular tow trucks. Some of the reasons listed as to the reluctance of towing companies to participate: - the heavy truck towing companies get much of their business from the truck indust…

In this case wouldn't it be fairly straightforward to just have the city buy a tow truck, paint without branding and have a worker of the city just tow? I mean I'd suggest having any department do this. There must be day to day things disrupted enough that someone's job has been disrupted with this all going on that can be reallocated to this.

from the above CBC article, there are 500 (down to 360 as of today, Feb 15) heavy trucks in the "red zone" - one or even a handful of heavy truck towers is not enough.

also from the CBC article, excerpts:

====

While the city likely has some vehicles with heavy-duty towing capacity for large OC Transpo vehicles, they also did not provide a response when asked how many they had.

Hooking up a commercial truck to a heavy-duty tower — sometimes called a "wrecker" — takes at least 30 minutes, Whan said.

It also takes time to tow the trucks to wherever they're being relocated to, and if the City of Ottawa did attempt it, they'd need to find a sizable space to put them.

Police don't think towing the trucks is an effective solution, said Matt Skof, president of the Ottawa Police Association.

"You can tow all you want — they're just going to return to the location, so it hasn't resolved the issue," Skof said. "And where are you putting all these vehicles?"

====

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#989

Post by shinyamagami »

jsjsbdkj wrote: post #538
daenz wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The Canadian people are overwhelmingly vaccinated and don't mind wearing masks. 90+% of truckers are fully vaccinated. Then why require the mandate? I haven't seen any answer to that question besides the implied: "because we demand full compliance."

Do you understand how public health works? The vaccine does not 100% prevent any infection, it reduces the odds and intensity. Some people cannot be vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons. You would think computer people would understand "defense in depth". Meanwhile, anti-vaccine people are single-handedly working to revive diseases that were almost eradicated: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2019/03/2…

Please stay home forever and never get out because some people cannot get vaccinated. No exceptions. I hope those unvaccinated prove scientists right some day. It would take decades.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#990

Post by dpbriggs »

amrocha wrote: post #941
rubatuga wrote: post #893

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m Canadian, I work in healthcare. Around half the healthcare workers I’ve talked to want an end to mandates and passports. At this point, the vaccine mandates are ethically speaking, on thin ice as well. Autonomy and freedom from coercion is fundamental to informed consent.

I'm Canadian, I work in IT. Literally the only people who want to end the vaccine passport program are idiot boomers with brain poisoning. Most people are PISSED with anti vaxxers. Stop pretending you have the popular position because you don't.

Those are only people who want the end of it? Only people? Please stop with twitter-tier takes on this website. Following that with an appeal to popularity does what exactly here - disprove their anecdata?
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