Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

981–990 of 1001 posts

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#981

Post by zoolily »

throw10920 wrote: post #429
indymike wrote: post #314

There are three problems that colleges need to fix. 1) Skilled trades pay better than most bachelor's degree track jobs. My kids can make more money with a six month apprenticeship than they will with all but a few 4 year degrees. If you can drive a forklift, you can make $45K/yr... which is identical to what an firsty year teacher makes. 2) There are better options than college for many. One of my daughters did a si…

Your first three points are very strong and insightful, but I somewhat object to your fourth. Individuals get loans for things that pay off in the long-term regularly - cars and houses, for the most part. I don't see any reason why college should be different, especially because the alternative is for taxpayers to subsidize it. The real issues are twofold: first, student loans are underregulated and very predatory in…

There's much more to higher education costs than Baumol's cost disease. Public universities have much higher tuition because state subsididies to universities have decreased. In 2005, the state paid 3/4 and students paid 1/4 of the cost of instruction at my university. By 2019, those numbers were reversed, with students paying 3/4 of the cost. Total cost of instruction remained the same within a couple percent over that time period.

On the other side, elite private universities are in ever greater demand, driving higher tuitions. Higher tuition is a signal of their elite status, and such universities want to keep their tuition close to that of their competitors. They use financial aid to produce a sliding scale to collect as much money as they can from those who can afford to pay. On the other side, because of that financial aid, raising tuition an amount x may only produce an increase of income of 1/2 x, because the rest goes to increased financial aid. That factor increases the rate at which they raise tuition.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#982

Post by TiredGuy »

indymike wrote: post #314

There are three problems that colleges need to fix. 1) Skilled trades pay better than most bachelor's degree track jobs. My kids can make more money with a six month apprenticeship than they will with all but a few 4 year degrees. If you can drive a forklift, you can make $45K/yr... which is identical to what an firsty year teacher makes. 2) There are better options than college for many. One of my daughters did a si…

With interest rates so low these days, are student loans still problematic? Seems like a nice way to defer having to pay while in school, but I'd love to learn more about the issue.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#983

Post by oceanplexian »

indymike wrote: post #314

There are three problems that colleges need to fix. 1) Skilled trades pay better than most bachelor's degree track jobs. My kids can make more money with a six month apprenticeship than they will with all but a few 4 year degrees. If you can drive a forklift, you can make $45K/yr... which is identical to what an firsty year teacher makes. 2) There are better options than college for many. One of my daughters did a si…

> Skilled trades pay better than most bachelor's degree track jobs

To me this is just a sign that the market is working correctly. The world needs more forklift drivers, plumbers, electricians, and mechanics than it needs teachers. The idea that teachers deserve to be paid more is elitist, IMHO. The problem is that our culture incorrectly assumes college degrees are the only way to “learn” productive and valuable skills.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#984

Post by tapatio »

prawn wrote: post #815
tapatio wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's nearly impossible to even get people to come out for normal household jobs anymore" Yup, residential clients are bottom feeders - avoid them at all costs - nothing but a hassle. The good money, and work, is with commercial clients.

What then should a residential client do? (Assuming they haven't yet found "their electrician" that they have rapport with.) Get a recommendation, overpay if necessary, pay promptly, then hope they'll take your call and not overquote next time? Two of my tradies (painter and gyprocker) I actually found by having them do work at my office building, and then contacted them for work at home.

That's a tough question. A recommendation from a friend is probably the best bet. And when they do come and do the work, offer them drinks and snacks, make them comfortable. They will remember that since 90% of customers don't do that. You can also give a tip. I do all of those things and its worked out well.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#985

Post by pragmatic8 »

TiredGuy wrote: post #982
indymike wrote: post #314

There are three problems that colleges need to fix. 1) Skilled trades pay better than most bachelor's degree track jobs. My kids can make more money with a six month apprenticeship than they will with all but a few 4 year degrees. If you can drive a forklift, you can make $45K/yr... which is identical to what an firsty year teacher makes. 2) There are better options than college for many. One of my daughters did a si…

With interest rates so low these days, are student loans still problematic? Seems like a nice way to defer having to pay while in school, but I'd love to learn more about the issue.

I wouldn’t consider the rates here [1] low at all. Parent PLUS loans are sky high at 6.28%. I suppose you are talking about private loans but they have their own set of downsides.

[1] https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/types/loans/interest-r...

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#986

Post by dragonwriter »

pragmatic8 wrote: post #985
TiredGuy wrote: post #982

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With interest rates so low these days, are student loans still problematic? Seems like a nice way to defer having to pay while in school, but I'd love to learn more about the issue.

I wouldn’t consider the rates here [1] low at all. Parent PLUS loans are sky high at 6.28%. I suppose you are talking about private loans but they have their own set of downsides. [1] https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/types/loans/interest-r...

> Parent PLUS loans are sky high at 6.28%.

PLUS loans are supplemental loans with a higher rate than regular direct undergraduate (3.73%) or graduate/professional (5.28%) student loans.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#987

Post by brewtide »

prawn wrote: post #815
tapatio wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's nearly impossible to even get people to come out for normal household jobs anymore" Yup, residential clients are bottom feeders - avoid them at all costs - nothing but a hassle. The good money, and work, is with commercial clients.

What then should a residential client do? (Assuming they haven't yet found "their electrician" that they have rapport with.) Get a recommendation, overpay if necessary, pay promptly, then hope they'll take your call and not overquote next time? Two of my tradies (painter and gyprocker) I actually found by having them do work at my office building, and then contacted them for work at home.

As a self-employed painter (and a good list of other trades prior to), I'd say that references work both ways -- You, as the client, want the tradesman to have good references, but in my little neck of the woods, everyone knows everyone -- And we also use references to 'feel out' if we even want to work for someone.

Who do I want to work for? Someone who appreciates the end result, but is reasonable about timelines and a 'structured but not fully firm' timetable.

In the trades, we are usually doing a fine dance between other tradesmen doing their thing, then it is our turn to do our thing. So many phases in the process of a new build or remodel effort requiring all these different trades to line up correctly, usually between at least a few projects going on at the same time. When the plumber is 3 weeks behind, it bumps the insulators, which bumps the drywallers, which bump the painters, which (can) bump some finishing details, etc.

So, I'd say honestly, the understanding of things being delayed (within reason) is my primary "will work for them again" metric. Obviously we all work to get paid, but being paid isn't the reason I do what I do. Taking pride in work done is how I'm able to 'stare at walls' all day, and be fine with it.

That being said, throughout the thread I see people stating that no one wants to deal with the residential work. I primarily focus on residential work. It's probably easier to bill to the moon and skip some corners in the commercial world (ie. 'make more money') but as mentioned above, I've zero interest in that - It's a combination of being compensating fairly and pride in the work.

Find someone that does good work, for a fair price, and be civil -- It will be remembered. I'd dare say that most trades people that I know/knew have no problems with the 'stress of work', but the interactions with over-demanding clients are what cause them never to be willing to take a call again.

OR bill out the nose, hoping they don't even get the job, as it's just not worth it. (irony is, most of these stories end up with them getting the job, anyway).

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#988

Post by betwixthewires »

pb7 wrote: post #795
betwixthewires wrote: post #780

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for most people there isn't, degree or no degree. Most people lack imagination, live boring lives, and want financial stability and a rewarding family life. Your last statement is very condescending. If your goal is generational wealth , leaving your kids better off than you, return on capital investment and things like that, owning property as early as possible that you can afford to own puts you miles ahead of…

I don’t think it’s condescending at all. It’s a tough pill to swallow at best. I’m not saying those things are wrong to want or that they have no value, only that doing it as soon as possible will have you miss out on a lot of experiences and opportunities that may not be present after you settle down. Therefore, doing it earlier is not a win, as implied in the original comment. Edit: This is an example of the classi…

"Flyover country" is very condescending, belittling and arrogant.

What exactly are they missing out on? Perhaps you're missing out on what they have as well?

Telling people what their priorities in life ought to be is absolutely condescending. It's not a marshmallow test. It's a question of personal priorities and values. Looking down on people because they have different priorities and made different choices than you, telling yourself they missed out in doing it, it's really just a way to convince yourself you're happy with your choices and nothing more.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#989

Post by Thorentis »

indymike wrote: post #314

There are three problems that colleges need to fix. 1) Skilled trades pay better than most bachelor's degree track jobs. My kids can make more money with a six month apprenticeship than they will with all but a few 4 year degrees. If you can drive a forklift, you can make $45K/yr... which is identical to what an firsty year teacher makes. 2) There are better options than college for many. One of my daughters did a si…

> She made $45k year one, and a year later is the director of marketing at her company making over $100k/yr.

Hate to say it, but sounds like a diversity promotion to me.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#990

Post by ChicagoDave »

ars wrote: post #171
ChicagoDave wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not understand “vulnerable population”? There are actually people that the vaccines won’t help. They are immunocompromised. They can only be protected by high vaccination rates and zero exposure to Covid.

So your plan is to harm millions in order to protect tens? People who are immunocompromised have a tough life, but we can't shut down the world for them. COVID is here to stay. Forever. You can't shut the world down forever.

The temporary financial harm of everyone in exchange for ending the pandemic or ignoring the pandemic, hoping it goes away, but because so many people are unvaccinated, it keeps morphing and costing us billions of dollars anyway.

Hmmm....which seems better?

Post reply on HN