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Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

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Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#981
post #269

What are the things that motivates them, and what do they themselves want to do in life? I ask this because much of the undertone in the article and in this thread is about the failure of meeting the gender role expectations that are put on young men. Do they have a job and a car? Have they studied hard so they can get a good job in order to support a wife and kid? Culture in the last several decades have hammered do…

I wonder if it's more inherent than just culture. Women are more, for lack of a better word, desirable to men than vice versa. A man can value a woman who does nothing but exist. But a man needs something extra to provide some value to the partnership. (The previous sentences are, obviously, meant as an statistical tendency, not a universal truth.) Thus, while the negative constrains on women were mostly baseless in a modern society (with violence and manual labor being increasingly devalued), the negative expectations on men are not as baseless. Of course, in so far as monogamy and the roughly 50% sex ratio mandate some kind of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol%27s_cost_disease, these cultural expectations will lower over time, but I fear that the tradeoffs of the male sex will continue to become more and more out of touch with what is needed to prosper.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#982

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, I have enough income to retire in my 30s, but not enough to buy a house in the neighborhood I rent in where home prices have gone up 500% in the last 10 years.

You need wealth to retire, not income. Can you stop working and still have that income? And if you can stop working, then why can't you buy elsewhere?

Yes, I can stop working and have a decent life. The income isn't tied to work.

> why can't you buy elsewhere?

If you could see the view from my bedroom window, you'd understand. :)

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#983

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 45 year old sister is that way now and to a lesser extent my older brother was too. I lost _decades_ of sleep over their situation. Ultimately I didn't know anything when I left home at 18 and I figured it out. Other people can too. How long does it take to learn how to drive, open a checking account, cook, pay bill, etc. after all ? You can learn these things privately over the Internet so there's no longer a soc…

I want to comment on your brother’s reflection that he was in pain, bitter, and resentful that he did not have useful knowledge/skills and needed your help. There is an incredible amount of shame and self-directed anger and fear in men who have found themselves in this position. All of those feelings are heavy to carry, but they can be shoved aside and ignored by constant entertainment (video games, tv binges etc). S…

>For me, the question is how do you get someone so deep into a dark emotional morass to take on the emotional dragons they’ve been hiding from?

What worked for me was a hero's dose of mushrooms, and about a 4-5 hour talk with the universe to shift my perspective 180 degrees.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#984
post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some people (myself included) Game/TV addiction is a real problem and can have drastic affects on ones life. (It did for me throughout my 20s/30s). For others it doesn't seem to have negative side effects. My life was held back by time spent gaming for so long and later in life I realized TV was doing the same. Moderation in all things right? For me it is easier to cut them out period. I'm happier and have a far…

I'm in my mid 30s and I am going through this addiction of reddit/youtube and other distractions for the past 10 years. I've always known how harmful it is and I want to change. Do you have any tips for someone like me? I was still able to become an engineer, but I feel like I can be better. Like everyone else my motivation and drive was so much higher when I was younger. I might be using these distractions as a form…

Speaking as a lifelong addict (started with likely an addiction to breastfeeding), if you're anything like me from a mental predisposition standpoint, all you have to do is stay an addict! It's that simple. There's nothing wrong with addiction, and I would argue, it's likely a survival mechanism. The trick is, form "healthy" addictions, along with the vices, assuming you need to keep some vices kicking around to stay sane. It took me until I had kids and could watch them develop, to realize I've been an addict like everyone else in my family, my whole life. It happened to be addictions to things like playing basketball, doing martial arts, exercising, making music, learning UNIX and systems internals, raising and growing food, wood milling and working, growing and smoking weed, reading everything I could, etc. etc. etc. I've been flipping from one addiction to another since 1-2 years old, and learning all along the way, often with outstanding end products produced due to my obsessive nature. Embrace it, and learn when it's time to move on. It will take time, and flipping to a new addiction is always a bit anxiety-inducing (but so is learning anything new!).

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#985

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, stop doxxing me! Just kidding, but this post accurately describes my 20s and early 30s. I’ve been ‘born again’ twice, once after opiate addiction and once after alcohol. I had an adult parent enabling me throughout as well. Two rock bottom moments, after the first I decided to disregard the advice I was given, and it didn’t take. The second time, I was humbled and did the work by heeding the advice I was given a…

> ’ve been ‘born again’ twice, once after opiate addiction and once after alcohol. I had an adult parent enabling me throughout as well As a parent of 4 kids who for various reasons are all at elevated risk for substance abuse, what can I do if/when this happens to one of my kids to not enable them?

Say "no". Draw very distinct lines and limits and stick to your guns. Don't undermine your partner during disciplining. Don't get divorced.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#986
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe we should encourage more people to live this way. Sounds like an episode of Black Mirror. Life is meant to be lived ; the purpose of life is at least eudaimonia, not slowly rotting away in front of a computer.

That usage of " lived " is a romanticization. It's the grandparent telling the starry-eyed children about the good old times, glossing over the decades of toil and hardship. Many video games similarly skip time to focus on heroic moments. You don't role-play the 10,000 hours studying tomes at Hogwarts to become a 1st level wizard; instead you start the adventure at graduation, or at most do a training montage.

> That usage of "lived" is a romanticization. It's the grandparent telling the starry-eyed children about the good old times, glossing over the decades of toil and hardship.

Nah, the grandparent knows exactly well the good old times were the decades of toil and hardship. The kids won't get it if the grandparent tells these core truths anyways, until they live it.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#987

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

I want to put some blame on people's focus on university education here. Every guy I've met in this type of situation is someone that isn't stupid, but they don't excel in academia either. Their family treats them like crap because they didn't go to university or dropped after they got there. They become depressed because they compare themselves to their "smarter" peers who appear to have everything worked out are do…

This is the trap of social media and why many people would be healthier and happier if they were able to live & be present in the moment without their phone.

Plenty of people will read this comment and think that is not them but if there is not a point in your day when your phone is not on you, out of sights and out of reach for at least an hour you're not as "present" as you think.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#988

Earlier quoted context omitted.

let's fund our own town!

It's beyond my technical ability, but I always wished I was able to create an app where contractors could sign up to build a town "at cost" with everyone contributing their specialty. Each finished town would have an electrician/HVAC/etc for repairs or to other business with. Maybe that would be something to pivot towards. Start with volunteer work. "Let's clean up the beach 6/10". People could earn karma/upvotes fro…

Let's just fork China's social credit score system.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#989

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve attempted this discussion all over the internet. It does not go well would be a tame statement. There seems to be a pervasive belief that men do have this option equally available to them. Only half? My exp is more like 80% shack up with a breadwinner. Even with half of women that means max 25% of men get this option.

My comment was strongly upvoted (50+) so I believe the HN community understands this dynamic. I mean if you go outside Western bubbles e.g. all of Asia Latam etc. 99% of women seek to marry a breadwinner over having their own career, closer to how it was 50 years ago here in the US, a dynamic that's hard to miss. The 50% I mentioned is from a competitive ivy league school where you get a major career leg up. If 50% o…

Probably because HN is something like 95%+ male demographic and career focused. The rest of the internet does not seem to agree based on my testing the water. Women (self identified of course) seem especially interested in pushing that men could simply stay at home if they wanted.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#990
post #467
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If instead he's referring to apps like Bumble where the woman has to make the first move, see above for why some apps choose to operate with that model. Under that model.. it's common for the first message to be "hi" or ".". Not much has changed.

Most common Bumble message: "Hey how's it going" Isn't that the exact lack of effort you complain about? The real problem is that wtf are you supposed to say to someone you don't know? Whatever that comes out is meaningless because you have 0 to go on. That's the point. It's a starting point.

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