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Covid vaccine: First ‘milestone’ vaccine offers 90% protection

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Covid vaccine: First ‘milestone’ vaccine offers 90% protection

#981

Post by phaemon »

teorema wrote: post #775
sologoub wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current n=94. The real n=43.5k data apparently will come later. Article doesn’t specify when, but “hopes” to have enough of the larger n analyzed to submit to regulators by 3rd week of November.

FWIW, N=94 seems ridiculously small to me. I realize there's ethical concerns in increasing exposure etc but in my experience, that's in the ballpark of sample sizes where unacknowledged heterogeneity can be manipulated to distort findings. I'm not suggesting Pfizer is up to something nefarious, just that the biomedical literature is littered with studies with N 40k in some ways is irrelevant if none of those partici…

Seems fine to me. 85 people from the placebo group caught covid. If the vaccine was completely ineffective you'd expect roughly the same number in the vaccinated group. The actual number was 9.

What you're saying is the 9 is pretty close to 34 (60% effectiveness). No, it isn't. You'd need to quadruple the number of vaccinated cases to get there. Even if you double them, you're still at 80% so I'd take that as the realistic worst case.

Edit: Also, this is BioNTech's vaccine, not Pfizer's. They partnered with Pfizer as they have the facilities and scale for a massive rollout, but it was developed by BioNTech. I wish they were getting more credit in the US & UK coverage.

Re: Covid vaccine: First ‘milestone’ vaccine offers 90% protection

#982

Post by siltpotato »

andrepd wrote: post #907
pembrook wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the markets, a handful of rich in banks and large corporations? Glad you asked. No, "the markets" are not simply a handful of rich people, banks and large corporations. The markets are also more than just "stocks." In fact, the majority of "the markets" is actually bonds, and most of those bonds are debt issued by nearly all the countries of the world (sovereign bonds). I think roughly 80 Trillion dollars,…

>If you live in a country with roads, infrastructure, buildings, etc.--then the markets are responsible for everything around you. See, this kind of thing really gets to me. Here's you circa 1290: "If you live in a fiefdom with wells, irrigation, castles, etc. -- then your Lord is responsible for everything around you." See how fallacious that sounds when you transpose it this way? The central issue is that you're ju…

> If you live in a fiefdom with wells, irrigation, castles, etc. -- then your Lord is responsible for everything around you.

Well that's because it's true. No human-collective entity is entirely evil, because otherwise nothing would get done. Look at all the evils of FAANG; yet they still pay their employees and have restrooms.

Re: Covid vaccine: First ‘milestone’ vaccine offers 90% protection

#983

Post by johnisgood »

apostacy wrote: post #892
johnisgood wrote: post #876

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we know that there are no significant long-term side-effects? These vaccines seem to be developed so quickly while others take years or even decades... I do not know if this is irrational fear, but I fear that this is rushed and there might be potentially serious side-effects that are missed. Why am I being down-voted? Is it really of no concern?

I for one agree with you. There is no rush to get vaccinated. Personally, I doubt I will get it at all. The authorities have a very long way to go to win back my trust, after the chain of screwups over the last year. We've seen that they will lie to us, we've seen that they apply rules to us that they themselves don't follow, and we've seen them take advantage of the situation for their own benefit. It is a huge sham…

You are getting down-voted too by people who do not even bother replying, probably some blind followers, government-loving NPCs.

You know how you could turn this against them to make them think twice about it? Get the Russian vaccines, or the Chinese. Yeah, do it! Suddenly they are not so keen... Now imagine if their beloved State made it mandatory to get Russian vaccines inside them. They would most likely be against it, and our votes would not be down... It is not even the votes I give a damn about, but the fact that we do not know THAT much of COVID-19 but people seem to believe the claims that we have extremely safe vaccines ready just within a few months. Yeah, they say that of the Russian vaccines, too, are you going to take it, down-voter? Would you like the State to make it mandatory for your kid to get vaccinated? I am curious.

My entire family tested positive for COVID-19, and my grandma most likely has it. None of us has/had symptoms. I do not want to get vaccinated. If you (not you, the down-voters) really care, go get vaccinated by the Russian vaccines.

My country plans to vaccinate the elderly, kids, and people with chronic diseases first, then the rest of the population. I really, really wonder how many people are going to have FORESEEABLE side-effects. I think they are also planning to make it mandatory.

P.S. I am not an anti-vaxxer, but these claims by pharmaceutical companies sound shady as heck. If they said they found the vaccine after 5 days and they claim it is super safe because 5 people did not die from it within 10 days, would it make you OK the vaccine? Come on. My problem is that. It is too quick, and too many promises of lack of side-effects, and lots of financial interest. For that I do not believe them. We (medical workers) even have to lie about people dying from COVID-19 so we (the hospital) get more funding. How about that? Governments put price control on the tests, which resulted in zero competition as it was not worth it for private businesses to continue testing. How about that?

Re: Covid vaccine: First ‘milestone’ vaccine offers 90% protection

#984

Post by deeeeplearning »

standardUser wrote: post #885
deeeeplearning wrote: post #847

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Where do you get that it will take "months" between emergency approval and actual vaccinations Because this is a press release from a corporation with a vested interest in being "first" and not an approval by the FDA.

Oh, so just blanket cynicism with no evidence, got it.

Oh because you have lot's of evidence that vaccines will be available to the public in a few weeks?

https://news.yahoo.com/hhs-secretary-coronavirus-general-vac...

HHS expecting availability for the public in March. Let me see 1..2..3... ah yes that appears to be MONTHS away.

Re: Covid vaccine: First ‘milestone’ vaccine offers 90% protection

#985

Post by Obi_Juan_Kenobi »

asdfman123 wrote: post #946
lambdasquirrel wrote: post #922

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s an RNA vaccine. RNA degrades at room temperature.

Yes, but why that low?

Because RNA is not a stable molecule. At lower temperatures, it's less likely for a given bond to reach the Gibbs free energy of activation, thus preventing degradation.

In a biological context, the vast majority of RNA use falls within the 'central dogma' of DNA -> RNA -> Protein. It is merely an intermediate, albeit one with important and complex regulatory processes.

In RNA viruses and other contexts where stability is required, the RNA is stabilized by its environment, namely by associating with special proteins.

Re: Covid vaccine: First ‘milestone’ vaccine offers 90% protection

#986

Post by IgorPartola »

GhostVII wrote: post #142
IgorPartola wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey I got decent aluminum foil hats I can sell you for $500/each. They are the only way to protect against deep state mind control rays :)

I don't think it's totally unbelievable that they waited until after the election to release preliminary results. Waiting a week or two wouldn't hurt the timeline, and would significantly damage Trump's campaign. If I worked at Pfizer that's what I would do.

The protocol was to release the results when enough people got sick. You can’t control when hat happens.

Re: Covid vaccine: First ‘milestone’ vaccine offers 90% protection

#987

Post by antgiant »

lbeltrame wrote: post #949
antgiant wrote: post #940

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is all true as long as the RNA doesn’t replicate itself and only produces antigens. However, I couldn’t find any papers at all that discussed if any of the current mRNA vaccine candidates self replicate their RNA to amplify the antigen production. I’d love some good references that address that.

This doesn't replicate, AFAICS. The one in Phase I by Imperial College is instead self-replicating.

Did some more searching today and this one does in fact amplify just like the Imperial College one

Re: Covid vaccine: First ‘milestone’ vaccine offers 90% protection

#988

Post by lbeltrame »

antgiant wrote: post #987
lbeltrame wrote: post #949

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't replicate, AFAICS. The one in Phase I by Imperial College is instead self-replicating.

Did some more searching today and this one does in fact amplify just like the Imperial College one

Did it? Can you point me to the relevant paper? It's been a while since I read their phase 1 data.

Re: Covid vaccine: First ‘milestone’ vaccine offers 90% protection

#989

Post by The_rationalist »

antgiant wrote: post #987
lbeltrame wrote: post #949

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't replicate, AFAICS. The one in Phase I by Imperial College is instead self-replicating.

Did some more searching today and this one does in fact amplify just like the Imperial College one

So will this be in significant quantity in my body for years?

Re: Covid vaccine: First ‘milestone’ vaccine offers 90% protection

#990

Post by danesparza »

bluGill wrote: post #388
danesparza wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that -80c cold storage isn't widely available. The Ebola outbreak might have shown how to get small numbers of doses into a warzone, but scaling this up might prove to be a logistical difficulty. "Once a provider receives that vaccine, it really starts the clock that the vaccine needs to be administered within five days of when it's put in the refrigerator" Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cor…

Sure it is. Any small city (> 50,000 people) has someone who can get you liquid nitrogen in far larger quantities than will ever be needed (thus stuff is used for a lot of industrial processes). Put it in a cooler from wal-mart and you have a week. Any you get a week after thawing it to use is anyway, so you don't need the cold storage where the end user is. I don't know what the thawing protocols are of course.

So I appreciate that liquid nitrogen can keep things cool. And I appreciate that it can keep things cooler than the required -80c. (Nevermind that keeping it inside of a temperature range might be important as well).

But I think you're overlooking something rather important: Storing liquid nitrogen in a vacuum flask only keeps the liquid nitrogen cold for hours or days. It doesn't keep the thing cold that you're cooling with liquid nitrogen.

The week you get to use it is after the dose has been created. If it's brought below temperature for any length of time, it can presumably DESTROY the dosages affected by temperature.

See the current flu vaccine storage protocols, for example: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/vac-sto...

"Regular temperature monitoring is key to proper cold chain management. Store frozen vaccines (Varicella, MMRV, and Zoster) in a freezer between -58°F and +5°F (-50°C and -15°C). Store all other routinely recommended vaccines in a refrigerator between 35°F and 46°F (2°C and 8°C). The desired average refrigerator vaccine storage temperature is 40°F (5°C). Exposure to temperatures outside these ranges may result in reduced vaccine potency and increased risk of vaccine-preventable diseases."

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