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Richard M. Stallman resigns

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Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#981

Post by concordDance »

makomk wrote: post #643
journalctl wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t call “not actively espousing hateful or bigoted views” “self-censorship”. And if people are afraid to be hateful or creepy in public, I’d call that a win. You don’t get to proclaim the advantages of chattel slavery and be magically immune from everyone’s responses, and afterwards you can’t complain about self-censorship when you think twice about writing or saying something abhorrent.

Your argument assumes that there's some objectively right definition of which views are hateful or bigoted that exactly corresponds with the ones that will bring the social media mob's wrath down on someone. There clearly isn't: - How someone is treated depends heavily on whether they're perceived as being part of the right clique. For example, a few years ago Nintendo sacked someone who thought it was a great traged…

> someone who thought it was a great tragedy that owning photos and videos of kids being raped was illegal and bloviated about this on social media

I hate how diluted the word "rape" has become. I can't tell if you mean some perfectly willing petting between a 17 year and and a 20 year old.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#982

Post by concordDance »

snowwrestler wrote: post #242
naringas wrote: post #114

it's rather interesting how all the information technology (social media, etc...) is slowly moving our culture towards increasing self-censorship. One has to have the right opinion or stay quiet. Having the wrong opinion about certain topics is getting more expensive. Stay away from taboos or else... never mind the fact that what we regard as wrong changes across different societies over time. Weirdly all the informa…

> it's rather interesting how all the information technology (social media, etc...) is slowly moving our culture towards increasing self-censorship. It's not. Take it from me, a guy who predates social media by decades. If you go back and look at what Gary Hart dropped out of the 1988 presidential race for, and compare it to what Donald Trump said on social media before, during, and after being elected President, the…

You're conflating two very different environments. Mass media of yesterday was the establishment broadcasting carefully considered things. Social media today is individuals chatting to other individuals in a manner that can incidentally be seen by everyone. People using say, hackernews, aren't modelling this interaction as if they are on the stage being broadcasted to the world, they are modelling it as if they were talking to someone at a pub.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#983

Post by sixoseven »

kelnos wrote: post #478
nabla9 wrote: post #343

RMS has called himself "borderline autistic". His socially clueless black and white thinking makes it look like he is far in the spectrum. RMS is anal about meanings of terms and their use. That's not working well in the current climate where words carry perceived intent. I find myself agreeing with RMS with most of the terminology and its use in this case. Women who tell stories about him paint a picture of lonely s…

Can we please stop excusing bad behavior with some form of "oh because autism"? It's an insult to the many, many neuro-atypical people who don't say shitty, stupid things online, who don't act creepy around women, who don't have a sign on their MIT office that says "Knight for Justice (Also: Hot Ladies)", who don't have a gross mattress in their office where they encourage people to lie topless, who don't try to pres…

It seems to me that nobody who remains within the bounds of the law, but consistently flirts with the bounds of polite society deserves no respect from polite society but every bit of due process in a nation of laws. So the only matter that seems of any value is constraining the scope of 'bad behavior' within the context of polite society.

Hand waving and quietly ignoring is the mark of tolerance. But one wonders exactly how polite society is. One certainly presumes the existence of both knights for justice and hot ladies in a nation of millions. What society are we talking about?

I don't expect MIT to be any more representative of society than the NFL. It is a magnet for extreme people who defer common sense and common acceptance in search of very particular goals. I wonder if we were to get rid of Stallman and replace him, deserving as he must be, for a bust in our Hall of Fame if our society could resist defaming his very image and existence.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#984

Post by dangerface »

kelnos wrote: post #490
naringas wrote: post #114

it's rather interesting how all the information technology (social media, etc...) is slowly moving our culture towards increasing self-censorship. One has to have the right opinion or stay quiet. Having the wrong opinion about certain topics is getting more expensive. Stay away from taboos or else... never mind the fact that what we regard as wrong changes across different societies over time. Weirdly all the informa…

> One has to have the right opinion or stay quiet. I don't really see how this is so hard. Don't treat women poorly, in person or online. Don't talk authoritatively about subjects you don't understand, especially when those subjects (like rape and human trafficking) cause people intense pain. If you really do want to act this way, then you probably should exercise some self-censorship, and rethink your views, perhaps…

> What you say has a real effect on others, and if that effect is bad, you should be held accountable.

Speech is just a tool to share a thought, if a thought effects some one it is for them to bare alone.

The idea that sharing thoughts should have consequences upsets me greatly, maybe it shouldn't but it does. Your speech has filled me with bad feelings and troubling thoughts is that burden mine to bare alone or should I hold you responsible?

The sword you are flailing is sharp at both ends.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#985

Post by espressor »

concordDance wrote: post #970
X6S1x6Okd1st wrote: post #830

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not think people have tried to get RMS to stop talking about how injust statory rape is, or that he should probably stop talking about how child porn is ok? This isn't a one off and he's one of the least likely people to mend his ways.

The censorship of ideas the majority dislikes is pretty repulsive. This is one of the reasons it took so long for homosexuality to become accepted.

Can you explain how he's being censored? This event has caused his comments to be circulated more than ever.

Free speech is a right, but it's not a shield. He can continue to express his opinions, and the public will continue to have the right to object to them. If public opinion on a person is negative, companies will not want to associate with that person. That's the way society has been and will continue to be. This isn't inherently good, as seen with things like race/sexuality--but conflating the long struggle of the LGBT community with one man's archaic thoughts on pedophilia is frankly disgusting.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#986

Post by balaksakrionon »

colechristensen wrote: post #703
Guthur wrote: post #699

Anyone who has actually read the email thread and considers it a defence of sexual assault, the topic of the thread, is as intellectually bankrupt as the media witch hunts rms was warning about and fell victim to. We should be all concerned that media witch hunts like this can in act such results. It is abhorrent that any discussion that triggers a progressive dominated media can destroy people's lives.

I read it. There was some irrelevant quibbling about how accusations are worded. Then there was the speculation that the seventeen year old girl who is accusing his 73 year old friend of a sex crime would have appeared willing in the exchange with the implication that this apparent willingness made the situation not Minsky's fault. Doesn't matter if it didn't happen, defending statutory rape like that is really inapp…

One would have to be obtuse at best, malicious at worst to characterize Stallman's comments in the leaked mailing list thread as 'defending statutory rape' in any way.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#987

Post by hn23 »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #247
mkeedlinger wrote: post #239

There are so many judgements on both sides, both in these comments and in the articles on the subject that have been submitted, but very little quoting of what he said in context. Where can I find what he said? Why is everyone talking about what he meant without quoting what he said so I can decide what makes sense for myself?

Vice has the full transcript and it's long, which is part of why people aren't quoting snippets. Quoting snippets is not better in this case than talking about what you think he meant. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9ke3ke/famed-computer-sci... See also: https://medium.com/@selamie/remove-richard-stallman-fec6ec21...

Thank you for the links.

BTW: I am not sure why this question is down voted. At least here in Europe this was not real news so it was an honest questions. The FSF site did not explain the why.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#988

Post by balaksakrionon »

mikeash wrote: post #713

Tech bros: “I wonder why tech is so disproportionately male. Must be something biological.” Also tech bros: “I can’t believe RMS got forced out just for going on a crazy rant about rape on a CS mailing list. Why, any one of us could be next!”

The "tech bros" trope is getting quite tired; it would be more constructive to avoid such generalizations and stereotypes

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#989

Post by imhelpingu »

kelnos wrote: post #478
nabla9 wrote: post #343

RMS has called himself "borderline autistic". His socially clueless black and white thinking makes it look like he is far in the spectrum. RMS is anal about meanings of terms and their use. That's not working well in the current climate where words carry perceived intent. I find myself agreeing with RMS with most of the terminology and its use in this case. Women who tell stories about him paint a picture of lonely s…

Can we please stop excusing bad behavior with some form of "oh because autism"? It's an insult to the many, many neuro-atypical people who don't say shitty, stupid things online, who don't act creepy around women, who don't have a sign on their MIT office that says "Knight for Justice (Also: Hot Ladies)", who don't have a gross mattress in their office where they encourage people to lie topless, who don't try to pres…

Wow, thank goodness the Epstein issue came to light so we can finally put away this monster for being bad with women. Social justice priorities.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#990

Post by teachrdan »

badumtss wrote: post #532
nabla9 wrote: post #343

RMS has called himself "borderline autistic". His socially clueless black and white thinking makes it look like he is far in the spectrum. RMS is anal about meanings of terms and their use. That's not working well in the current climate where words carry perceived intent. I find myself agreeing with RMS with most of the terminology and its use in this case. Women who tell stories about him paint a picture of lonely s…

> Women who tell stories about him paint a picture of lonely socially incompetent man who makes super creepy attempts to connect opposite sex. Really?

"When I was a teen freshman, I went to a buffet lunch at an Indian restaurant in Central Square with a graduate student friend and others from the AI lab. I don’t know if he and I were the last two left, but at a table with only the two of us, Richard Stallman told me of his misery and that he’d kill himself if I didn’t go out with him."

https://medium.com/@selamie/remove-richard-stallman-appendix...

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