Moral high ground somewhat undermined by the post being on the deepfake porn and CSAM distribution platform formerly known as Twitter.
Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines
971–980 of 1001 posts
Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines
#972Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines
#973Let's be a bit more honest here, I think the Italian law is badly defined, but I also think the american perspective is wrong. We (all tech people everywhere me included) argued for a lot of time for free speech on the internet, but the result currently is that we built a system that is free speech for Russian and Chinese bots and actors. In Europe we are under daily attack from Russian accounts that spread massive a…
I see lots of disagreements here, but I must say I also soured on free speech. I used to think that free speech was necessary and overall a positive for society. Then I saw the Capitol attack in US. The disinformation spread in England about kids stabbed that led to riots. I see disinformation every day, especially from USA, saying Europe has no freedom, that it's overrun with criminals, and people not only believe i…
Those are not matters of freedom of speech, but the unhealthy amount of power social media platforms have come to possess. The problem is how they amplify and distribute disinformation because engagement = advertising money. Free speech does not (and should not) mean you get worldwide reach.
Any platform distributing 'content' over a certain audience size should be treated as a media company and subject to much stricter rules and some kind of ethical oversight - like newspapers used to.
Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines
#974Elon Musk the bastion of free speech who famously banned a twitter account that posted publicly available information.
If someone says they believe in free speech, they have to let me spraypaint anything I want on their house. Otherwise they're a hypocrite.
This is a very sound example of what the right to free speech is; it is a protection for your property rights. The state can't retaliate against you for saying something, and can't compel you to accept any speech on your property.
However, as a defense of Papa Elon, it is ironic. Must and his lickspittles claim that online platform should not be allowed to block whatever speech they want.
Except speech they don't like. Like plane locations.
Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines
#975Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree. Freedom of Speech guarantees the right to speak. Not the right to have no repercussions. Elon has GREAT interest in Freedom of Speech, it enables him to have far more power than regulating the type of "speech" he showed in cancelling that customer's order.
> Freedom of Speech guarantees the right to speak. Not the right to have no repercussions. How is that different from, say, Freedom of Theft guaranteeing the right to steal, but not the right to have no repercussions? By these definitions, everyone has these “rights”?
I think the OP meant 'social reprecussions'.
But really it is a citizen, Elon Musk, exercising their property rights. The fact that he claims that such restrictions should not be applied to speech he likes is the problem.
Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines
#976Earlier quoted context omitted.
I see lots of disagreements here, but I must say I also soured on free speech. I used to think that free speech was necessary and overall a positive for society. Then I saw the Capitol attack in US. The disinformation spread in England about kids stabbed that led to riots. I see disinformation every day, especially from USA, saying Europe has no freedom, that it's overrun with criminals, and people not only believe i…
Those are not matters of freedom of speech, but the unhealthy amount of power social media platforms have come to possess. The problem is how they amplify and distribute disinformation because engagement = advertising money. Free speech does not (and should not) mean you get worldwide reach. Any platform distributing 'content' over a certain audience size should be treated as a media company and subject to much stric…
I can agree with that.
Unlimited free speech could have been positive maybe 100 years ago. Strikes, protest, writing angry letters to your Mayor demanding change are all great forms of speech.
Posting some unhinged xenophobic conspiracy theory on Twitter for everyone to see and to get retweeted by the President of the US or the most powerful CEOs are toxic and corrosive forms of speech.
Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines
#977Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's just a cultural difference between Europeans and Americans, it has nothing to do with freedom of speech in the US.
By that logic, everything is a cultural difference...
There are indeed a lot of cultural differences between the United States and Europe.
Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines
#978Earlier quoted context omitted.
so CF is clear - if the law is not changed they'll leave italian market. That's fair
And he is more than welcome to do so. The services provided by Cloudflare can easily be replaced by more local providers that have no problem complying with Italian laws. The takedown might not happen within 30 minutes, but there would still be action and a response to a report from the authorities. Italy and Europe do not need the arrogance of those who believe they are above the law by virtue of a freedom that is u…
how can the services of cloudflare be easily replaced if I require you to go through cloudflare to access my site?
Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines
#979Cloudflare is a haven for abuse. Most large scam groups now have their own ASNs and IP registrations, so CF just forwards them the report and tells you to contact fiberscam.co.za or whatever fake company the scam group has created. They are not cut out for this workaround and yet the largest scam groups have been using it since 2023. I don't think they are currently doing any statistical analysis, one provider has ju…
Any further reading on this?
Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines
#980Earlier quoted context omitted.
Curious, why does his rant piss you off?
I've had the pleasure of working for CEOs who don't resort to public threats (or all caps) to get their point across. When I chose who leads me or who I work with stability and consistency are key. This just sounds like a man who thinks he can flex his way out of a problem and that is just such a short sited way to solve problems. Not my kind of CEO.
Why shouldn't they resort to strongarming? Italy literally wants to blacklist IPs at whim for the entire planet. Cloudflare CEO is 100% in the right to strongarm them. Who do these people even think they are, to censor the planet's DNS?