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Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

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Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#971

Post by jwe »

The amount of neo-antisemitism, ignorance towards history of antisemitism, Oct 7 denial, WW2 perpetrator/victim reversal, among other perception errors in this thread (and of course all online threads about this) is staggering and breathtaking.

At this point - except for this one message in this one thread on this one website - I have stopped all interaction with this topic online. I feel helpless, powerless and hope that this phase of human/news/information/power interaction is well past all of us within my lifetime.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#972

Post by shykes »

yieldcrv wrote: post #14

Useless except if the following done on the US side: Remove exception to AIPAC political status Reevaluate AIPAC non profit status entirely Replicate EO 14046 for Israel which adds the entire ruling party and head of state and spouses and military and affiliated business to the OFAC list all of this is easy and doesn’t require Congress but nobody is close to considering those actions with regard to Israel. Notably, o…

> Remove exception to AIPAC political status

> Reevaluate AIPAC non profit status entirely

What would that achieve? AIPAC is a domestic organization. Their members are US citizens and permanent residents, making individual political donations of their own free will.

AIPAC vets candidates for their support of Israel, and individual donors rely on them to make an informed decision. But ultimately it is their decision, and their money.

If AIPAC disappeared tomorrow, their members would still be directing their political donations towards pro-Israel candidates, as is their constitutional right. They would simply look for another nonprofit to do the vetting, or do the research themselves.

On top of being ineffective, attacking AIPAC in this way would also be unethical. You may not like that some US citizens prioritize support for Israel in their donations. That doesn't give you the right to suppress their donations. It creates a dangerous precedent where suppressing the political rights of some citizens is justified if they have the "wrong" opinions.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#973

Post by brainwad »

grafmax wrote: post #956
brainwad wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I more or less agree with you (if it were a _genocide_, you'd expect Israel to be equally targeting Palestinians in the West Bank and in Israel proper), but the report does have some specific examples of things that seem to go beyond "just" urban warfare. For example, Israel denied shipments of baby milk powder, which can serve no legitimate military purpose (except trying to prosecute the war via starvation of babie…

> if it were a _genocide_, you'd expect Israel to be equally targeting Palestinians in the West Bank and in Israel proper Genocide means trying to killing the group in whole or in part. Trying to kill the group everywhere isn’t necessary for it to be genocide.

If they leave so much of a group alone, it starts to suggest that the intended targeted group is a different, smaller one. In this case, residents of Gaza vs Palestinians as a nation. Especially in combination with the "siege" comments, the motive seems clearly military advantage.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#974

Post by pavovap »

ynx wrote: post #869
LorenPechtel wrote: post #850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Israel serves as a lightning rod. Much of the Islamist violence is directed at them rather than at the rest of the world. 2) Israel is a nuclear power. You think they'll let themselves be exterminated (and that's what their opponents want) without using their bombs?

There is a lot to unpack in this. Your #1 is encoding an unexamined assumption that there is a fixed or at least somewhat inflexible amount of violence to be directed anywhere. It also ignores the lightning generation engine, so to speak, that is the settler colonialism causing unrest across the region. On #2 - Rational people see that they are willing to do everything short of nuclear war when they feel like their c…

What a load of BS

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#975

Post by MomsAVoxell »

shykes wrote: post #972
yieldcrv wrote: post #14

Useless except if the following done on the US side: Remove exception to AIPAC political status Reevaluate AIPAC non profit status entirely Replicate EO 14046 for Israel which adds the entire ruling party and head of state and spouses and military and affiliated business to the OFAC list all of this is easy and doesn’t require Congress but nobody is close to considering those actions with regard to Israel. Notably, o…

> Remove exception to AIPAC political status > Reevaluate AIPAC non profit status entirely What would that achieve? AIPAC is a domestic organization. Their members are US citizens and permanent residents, making individual political donations of their own free will. AIPAC vets candidates for their support of Israel, and individual donors rely on them to make an informed decision. But ultimately it is their decision,…

>You may not like that some US citizens prioritize support for Israel in their donations. That doesn't give you the right to suppress their donations.

It's quite simple, treat Israel like Russia. Same tools are available for any nation which commits atrocities under the watchful guise of the mighty, moral, USA.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#976

Post by MomsAVoxell »

mschuster91 wrote: post #167
actionfromafar wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One party had a long leash. The other cut the leash and yelled attaboy. Now acting mildly concerned when the neighbour downstreet (Qatar) got their chickens bombed.

> Now acting mildly concerned when the neighbour downstreet (Qatar) got their chickens bombed. Thing is, what was bombed there was Hamas leadership, not some rank-and-file goons.

So?

Justifying this kind of act, no matter what, opens the doors for such assassinations to occur in any other country in the world.

The precedence has been set. Don't moan when your own politicians, branded terrorists by the governments of some foreign nation, also get blasted away.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#978

Post by explore »

brainwad wrote: post #707
kharak wrote: post #697

Every time I've looked into the arguments for this being a genocide, I saw, at best, a description of urban warfare. Maybe I am wrong. If anyone is still reading this thread, could you write what you believe will happen after Israel won the war?

I more or less agree with you (if it were a _genocide_, you'd expect Israel to be equally targeting Palestinians in the West Bank and in Israel proper), but the report does have some specific examples of things that seem to go beyond "just" urban warfare. For example, Israel denied shipments of baby milk powder, which can serve no legitimate military purpose (except trying to prosecute the war via starvation of babie…

> Israel denied shipments of baby milk powder

“Yesterday, armed individuals approached four trucks outside our compound in Gaza City that were getting ready to transport desperately needed Ready-to-Use Therapeutic Food (RUTF) for malnourished children enduring famine." https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/statement-unicef-theft...

This must have been done by the Jews of Gaza. Wait...

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#979

Post by dotancohen »

MangoToupe wrote: post #365
toast0 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm afraid the latest spate of "recognizing the state of Palestine" is not, in fact, a sign of coming relief for the people there, but rather a spigot to relieve domestic pressure to engage in substantive actions (sanctions, pressuring the US and other suppliers of arms to engage in sanctions, let alone sending peacekeepers or no-fly zones). I don't think recognition as a State would really change anything. If at l…

There's not really much of a state to recognize in the first place, is there? Maybe this would have made a big difference 30 years ago, but now?

[flagged]

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#980

Post by acdha »

dotancohen wrote: post #979
MangoToupe wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not really much of a state to recognize in the first place, is there? Maybe this would have made a big difference 30 years ago, but now?

[flagged]

It seems relevant that in the mid-90s the Israeli hard right reacted to the possibly of peaceful by engaging in some highly effective political assassinations which successfully restarted the cycle of violence, setting the stage for Netanyahu to prevent the two state solution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs_massacr...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Yitzhak_Rabin

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