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Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

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Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#971

Post by goosejuice »

ajmurmann wrote: post #805
goosejuice wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mixed use zoning and some rules on what businesses can open would go a long way. Where I live I can walk to a small downtown that spans a few blocks with a train station. Unfortunately there is no where to buy groceries. There's like 3 ice cream shops, 3 pizza joints, and 9 salons though.

Is there no demand for grocery stores? Seems like they naturally would pop up to fill demand

We have a very large number of grocery stores. They just aren't in walking distance of the downtown area. So there's demand, but apparently not enough for a bodega with produce.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#972

Post by bombcar »

goosejuice wrote: post #970
bombcar wrote: post #957

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grocery stores are pretty low-margin, and need a certain amount of demand (for the size Americans are used to). Some convenience stores get moderately close to being a grocery store. It'd be an interesting experiment to see how few products you could carry (and of course, only one of each type) and have people still willing to shop there.

> It'd be an interesting experiment to see how few products you could carry Liquor store comes to mind. There are two cigar shops, two wine shops and a beer shop downtown. Just weird priorities I guess.

I meant specifically what the smallest size you could get and people would still see you as a grocery store.

Basically, what is the minimum things you need for them to carry?

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#973

Post by WorldMaker »

kccqzy wrote: post #843
MisterTea wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in Spain last month and what stood out is that walkability requires mom and pop stores as well as more integrated neighborhoods with small commercial shops mixed into residential. Small shops seemed to be the majority in the city centers. The only large store I saw was a Lidl. They have largeish indoor markets that are more like a mini mall of individual shops like a butcher, produce, baker, cheese, even restau…

You go to Midtown Manhattan and you continue to find plenty of chain stores like Target. Large scale stores are fine. Just don't dedicate space to parking. If you must, use underground parking garages not surface parking lots. You can cater to lots of shoppers if you assume shoppers will walk there or take public transportation.

It's easy to forget the large Department Store started in downtown areas with plentiful multi-story buildings. We tend to remember the few that remain now as the anchors at the ends of malls, but they started as more natural vertical extensions of urban development.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#974

Post by pjmlp »

randunel wrote: post #969
pjmlp wrote: post #857

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad to be proven wrong for the lucky folks living in the suburbs of such marvellous city without being second class citizens, pity that you didn't provide such example, while being so eager to talk others down. Maybe because there isn't such El Dorado.

I already said as much. Here's the quote from above: > You can't, because there is no such city.

Waiting to be proven wrong with a counter example, shouldn't be so hard, to find at least one, instead of answering me with useless words.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#975

Post by Qwertious »

marcosdumay wrote: post #581
basilikum wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tunneling underground is extremely expensive. Individual self driving pods aka cars are very expensive. But most importantly cars do not get more efficient in capacity just because you put them underground, plus now you have to build entrances and exits to the underground system everywhere. Traveling also becomes a lot less appealing when you're in a black tube all the time rather than seeing the city around you. It'…

> cars do not get more efficient in capacity just because you put them underground I don't think the entire "car tunnels" thing is reasonable either, but this one is wrong. The bottleneck for cars is the inherent interference in the 2-dimensional streets. If you shove them all in a few tunnels right until they get into a low-transit region close to the destination, it would increase their capacity by a lot. It's also…

Surface streets aren't inherently 2D, though - you can build overpasses and underpasses and above-grade highways. We just don't, because it's hideously expensive.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#976

Post by christina97 »

throw0101d wrote: post #344
christina97 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t enjoy the 15 minutes I spend packed in the NY subway when I have to take it during rush hour, but I do enjoy hopping on the subway off-peak when the cars are half empty and I get a seat and open my subway book. Similarly I hated being stuck in 30 minutes of bumper-to-bumper traffic during my old commute in a past life. But I do really enjoy driving on new routes when the road is half empty. My two observation…

> Similarly I hated being stuck in 30 minutes of bumper-to-bumper traffic during my old commute in a past life. Being on a motorcycle in a jurisdiction where lane filtering is allowed/tolerated is awesome during rush hour (or any hour, really).

I in fact did that too for a while. Definitely the most fun form of commute.

That said, my biggest gripe with driving/riding as a commute is that I get really bored of taking the exact same route every single day.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#977

Post by Saline9515 »

Earw0rm wrote: post #910
Saline9515 wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinetic power is lower, that said you can still hurt yourself pretty bad depending on how you fall. A wrist doesn't need a lot of force to break, nor a skull needs to fall from high to cause trauma. A cyclist on a sidewalk going at 20km/h can cripple a child for life (not that the cyclist cares, but just for the example). I broke my wrist by falling from my bike when I was younger, almost while stopped (my wheel got…

And yet if you look at the public health statistics for the things _actually_ crippling children for life, "other people on bikes" are a very long way down the list - at least in most places; I don't know if Paris has a specific problem there. You can hurt yourself pretty bad in the home, after all - the major causes here seem to be cars and dogs. (Before we even consider that - at population level and in developed W…

The statistics are low because many places banned cyclists from sidewalks? Purely speed-wise, being hit by a car at 50kmh while riding a bike at 25kmh is similar to being hit by a cyclist going at 25kmh while being static on a sidewalk. Why are cyclists concerned about cars but I should just think "trust the stats bro" when the 5th cyclist going at full speed came past me on a narrow sidewalk? France banned shared e-scooters after many scathing accidents, including deaths and people being crippled. I remember a professional pianist who get her hand broken this way and had to stop her career.[0]

But I guess she's just a statistic, right? Pedestrians, out of the way!

[0] https://www.leparisien.fr/societe/blessee-par-une-trottinett...

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#978

Post by Saline9515 »

ropable wrote: post #876
Saline9515 wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A city is a much more dangerous environment. You have bollards, stupid pedestrians who keep on trying to circulate on YOUR sidewalk, potholes, dogs, and so on.

I don't disagree that commuting by bicycle can be hazardous, but the major risks to cyclist safety are cars, trucks and other cyclists (mainly e-bikes). Pedestrians, potholes, bollards, etc. are no worse than an inconvenience most of the time. You just don't build up enough speed to cause that much damage in a busy city due to a fall or colliding with a pedestrian. OTOH, even the mildest collision between a bike and…

The problem arises when cyclists want to use the space reserved for pedestrians (sidewalks), or ignore red lights, when pedestrians use the crosswalk. I am not against bicycle lanes, when it is doable, but cyclists should go on the road when there is none. And have insurance + numbered bikes if electrical.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#979

Post by Saline9515 »

fragmede wrote: post #964
Saline9515 wrote: post #764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you put the toilet paper? The diapers? I can fill a 400 L boot easily with weekly groceries for a family of 4. Most cargo bikes have max 300L space, you have no space left for children.

So go twice a week? I'm not sure what to call people when they can't solve problems that easy There may be issues with my solution, but if that solution is so obvious, maybe you could have used more words in your comment.

Twice a week doesn't solve the problem that you can have groceries + kids in a cargo bike. And we aren't all retired or in a cosy 30h job that allows back and forth all week.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#980

Post by Saline9515 »

potatoz2 wrote: post #915
Saline9515 wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cargo bikes are dangerous for children, there is little protection in case of an accident (not necessarily with a car, a bollard is enough) and well once you have one child in, you can't really have groceries. You can't use it when it's freezing. What you describe is typical of a one-child family in Netherland, but doesn't fit the reality of most of European cities. Also Netherland has a rather high amount of cars pe…

Are they very dangerous for children? Are there statistics? It doesn’t really freeze in Paris anymore so it's a moot point, but you can ride bikes when it does (you need different tires, just like cars, and a city that clears the roads, just like for cars).

A bike going at full speed on the sidewalk is dangerous to children, yes. It is why many cities banned cyclists there, which as a result led to a decrease in accidents. Pedestrians don't go at the same pace and can be particularly vulnerable, so I don't see why you need a statistic to understand this basic fact.
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